A Cocoa Finder!

[JBrown]

I would really like to see the Finder rewritten in Cocoa, as opposed to it's current Carbon form. I think that the added speed would certainly improve the overall user experience. Some specific things though:

I would like to be able to turn OFF live-window resizing. Not to go on and on about the "eye-candy" issue because frankly, I like the Aqua interface, but I do feel that the old-stlye outline was much faster. Maybe my point here is that I would really like to CUSTOMIZE my Finder to suit my needs. I know it can be done with third-party apps and through the Terminal, but as Ron Popeil says, I'd like to just "set it, and forget it."

Improve the latency between adding a file to a folder and actually SEEING it there. Not a big deal, but still a drag (please ignore the terrible pun, as it was not intentional.) :rolleyes:

Mount and unmount disks faster. Sometimes it's rainbow-cursor-of-death for quite a while.

Improve Apple's market share!

Josh

[didde]

I agree completely Josh..

Also, I think apple could improve performance immensly by utilising Mac OS X's multitasking capabilities by creating separate threads for basically everything in the Finder.. That way the Finder would still be usable even if a disk was really slow to eject and so on..

Looking forward to 10.2 :D

[didde]

Originally posted by didde
I agree completely Josh..

Hrm.. Sorry about your name..

:eek:

[JBrown]

didde-

You are correct sir! More thorough use of multithreading would be great. It would definately create more opportunities to get things done (which is the point if I'm not mistaken.)

I also wouldn't mind a different cursor than the rainbow-cursor-of-death. How about one that sticks it's tounge out at you when you can't use your machine! :p

[didde]

I like the tongue idea..

Maybe you should call Mr. Jobs?

[Phil St. Romain]

Are you guys familiar with SNAX? It's a Cocoa finder substitute that has column view, configurable toolbar, spring-loaded folder, optional preview window, and lots of other really nice features. It won't fully satisfy your wish list, but it's been making great strides and gets better with ever release.

You can pick up a fully functional copy at Version Tracker (http://versiontracker.com) I've chunked down my $32 for it, and use it as my Finder now 90% of the time.

[didde]

Yeah, I have been using SNAX for quite a while now..

It has got potential, but at the moment it is not good at all.

Really slow. Actually slower than finder even in list mode. You can't even use your own background image if you disable the Finder and use SNAX as a Finder-replacement which is really crappy.

I still can't get it why people don't threadalize their apps. I do it constantly when writing Java apps..

[Brad Nelson]

Cocoa or Carbon Finder? What difference would it make if something is written in BASIC if it works well? Anyway...

Originally posted by Phil St. Romain
Are you guys familiar with SNAX?

I'm somewhat impressed by SNAX. It does have some speed issues (what doesn't in OS X?) but it is getting close to being something good. It has a great preview capability which alone might be enough reason to use it, but that preview needs to add some of the regular info (such as file size) so you don't have to Get Info to see the basic stuff while in column view.

Phil, because of the "Spring-loaded" implimentation of SNAX I'm sort of on the fence as to whether this feature can ever be successfully implimented in any Column View-type browser. I think we really need the NeXT shelf to temporarily "dock" a file where its then ready to be dragged back down to its destination (for quick moving/copying). But particularly in SNAX the spring-loading is a bit bonkers. If I move a file over to a folder, intending to dump it inside, if I'm not quick about it the folder will pop open on its own accord and I just have to close it again. Am I missing a preference here? Is there a way to turn it off or set the delay?

[Phil St. Romain]

. . . If I move a file over to a folder, intending to dump it inside, if I'm not quick about it the folder will pop open on its own accord and I just have to close it again. Am I missing a preference here? Is there a way to turn it off or set the delay?

I don't know of any such preferences, but have found that folders close automatically if I just drag something over them. If I drop a file or folder in, the recipient folder stays open, and so I do have to close it--as in OS 9 spring-loads.

Speed--yes, it's a little more sluggish than the X finder, but after I open and scroll through a folder/column, it's snappy. As my computer is on for weeks at a time, after the first scroll-throughs, I have long periods of good responsiveness.

Agreed on the Preview. A little more info would be helpful. It's nice having the option of using it or not. I have it as a toolbar shortcut.

[Electric Sheep]

Technically, there's no reason that writing the Finder in Carbon would make it any faster than it already is. Carbon and Cocoa are "equal" APIs now. Yes, Cocoa offers a few unique tricks (access to System Services, etc) but there's practically *ZERO* performance difference between the two.

I think many people are confused about *why* Cocoa is superior to Carbon.

Cocoa is superior for *developers*, and really only those who are developing from scratch. It's a blazingly quick application creation environment that is hands-down superior to Classic Mac programming (now convluted into Carbon). Working with Interface Builder is magical and creating Cocoa apps is shockingly easy. Cocoa is certainly superior to Carbon.

But only for development!

[melg]

Originally posted by Brad Nelson
If I move a file over to a folder, intending to dump it inside, if I'm not quick about it the folder will pop open on its own accord and I just have to close it again. Am I missing a preference here? Is there a way to turn it off or set the delay?

This is one of the reasons I do not miss spring loaded folders. I realize I'm a minority in my opinion, but I found them a waste of time.

If spring loaded folders are ever implemented in X, I hope the user can turn them off.

[macubergeek]

all
what I want is a finder that can multi thread better than the current one.
Additionally when I set the view to columnar in a window I want it to stay that way and not slip back into list.
I don't want to see anymore eternally spinning beachball cursors.

other than that I'm fine;)

[Phil St. Romain]

Additionally when I set the view to columnar in a window I want it to stay that way and not slip back into list.

Try this: open the Finder; set in the view and window placement you desire; close the window. Open Finder window again: should be like you'd set it.

I don't want to see anymore eternally spinning beachball cursors.

Tell us when this happens and someone might have a solution.

[macubergeek]

Yes I've tried this but the view dosn't stick.

Cursor beachball
well pretty much any time. It happens when I first launch mail.app, or terminal. When the machine has been booted more than 15 hours and I try to connect via modem menu pulldown, the cursor will turn into a beachball for 15 or 20 minutes at a time.

I don't feel there's anything anyone on this list can do to fix this. Apple just has to get on the stick and fix the finder.

[didde]

Originally posted by macubergeek
Yes I've tried this but the view dosn't stick.

Allright, you have stumbled across an annoying small "bug" in the Finder.. What you need to do is, log in as root, set the columns or views the way you want them, then log out and log in as your real user and I'll be the windows you bring up will have the view you set them to have in root-mode.

Try it out!

(dd.)

[didde]

Originally posted by macubergeek
Yes I've tried this but the view dosn't stick.

.. Oops.. I almost forgot to mention that there is another way to make the view settings stick. The problem itself lies in the ".DS_Store" files that are in every folder you have ever viewed on your Mac. Finder saves the view settings in this tiny file, but when you're not logged in as root you don't have write privileges in the ".DS_Store" files so your settings won't be saved..

Try doing the following in the folder you're in.. (in the Terminal.app):
<B>sudo chown yourusername .DS_Store</B>

.. or if you want to chown all of the ".DS_Store"s on a drive do this:
<B>sudo find / -name .DS_Store -user root -print0 | sudo xargs -0 chown vasi
</B>

That should do the trick if you don't want to log in as root all the time..

(dd.)

[swgs]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but i'm gonna have to do some educating in here.

First off when Mac OS X 10.0 was release the Finder was written in Carbon, when i went to my OS X training at apple before the release, they said they did it this way to prove that Carbon isnt a second class API.

Well let's fast forward a bit to Mac OS X 10.1, the finder was re-written in Cocoa for 10.1. Dont believe me? Go to
/System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app

please note that the .app wont be there, but there will be two apps with the name Finder, one is a classic app and the other is an OS X app. Well right click (control-click) on the OS X Finder, notice the "Show Package Contents". Only Cocoa apps are "packages". It's just the nature of what a Cocoa app is.

So i guess your first wish has been granted.

Second, i know its already been said in this thread but let me repeat that Cocoa apps arent necessarily faster than a Carbon app, it really depends on the application and what its doing. Also, have you noticed how some carbon apps suck? well thats not carbon's fault, that's the developers fault.

SWGS

[Craig R. Arko]

Originally posted by swgs
Well right click (control-click) on the OS X Finder, notice the "Show Package Contents". Only Cocoa apps are "packages". It's just the nature of what a Cocoa app is.

SWGS

Uh, no. Carbon apps are frequently packages too. Check IE, for example.

X-Ray is a great tool for checking on the Carbon/Cocoa status of a .app. Interesting enough, for the Finder it doesn't say "Application (Carbon)" or "Application (Cocoa)." It says "Application (Finder)." What does that mean? The Finder is it's own kind of beast?