Send your own HTML bulk emails

[brodie]

this may be a bit contraversial, but theres (what i consider) a great app out there called Direct Mail, available on versiontracker.com. it allows you to write/paste your own html into an email, and send it to multiple addresses. it takes all the CC and creates individual emails so that only they appear in the To: field.

Whilst the use of the app has created a flame war- see versiontracker reviews, i believe this is a great app, if not just for the ability to write my own HTML emails. i had a good send html applescript, and a good remove CC applescript, but they didn't work together.

Now i can send solicited html email to my clients without painstakingly having to write out every email, to avoid the dreaded To: my@emailaddress.com or the like.
Strike up the blowtorch....

[macubergeek]

As one who has worked in Internet abuse investigation, let me just say that I'm sure your intentions are honorable...but avoid this. In order to stay on the right side of your ISP's Acceptable use Policy, you must have what's called an Opt-In list where by recipients must themselves take a positive action to sign up and who by default ARE NOT signed up to receive what you are sending. Qualifying as a genuine opt-in list is not easy. Save yourself some grief and the risk of losing your internet connection and just say no to bulk mail. There are easier ways to communicate with your customers. Think website.

[lerkfish]

further, I think 100% of spam ends up being deleted without being read, so where's the advantage to whatever product/viewpoint you are peddling? Yes, you're reaching large numbers of people, but if they are all just ticked and not listening, what is the ultimate point?

there are more effective (and honorable) ways to advertise.

further, this is not really a good fit for the "applications" forum....it could just as easily be in coat room because it brings up ethical issues, or where I am sending it: software reviews, because it at least purports to be a review. If the discussion goes into more ethical questions, I'll be happy to move it again to coat room.

In the future, if you just want to start ethical discussions about this sort of thing, start posting there.

[mervTormel]

HTML mail is for sissies.

and lerk, if 100% of spam is deleted, it would die a horrible death as a marketing tool. since it continues, some of it must achieve some reasonable return, like 5%, which isn't a bad market for some ;]

i've worked with intelligent people who have some uncontrollable notion to explore spam offers. they diligently open every email, and attachment, promulgating email viruses even with big red signs on the door that instruct them not to. it's got to be a brain disorder that spammers exploit quite profitably.

[Craig R. Arko]

Originally posted by mervTormel
HTML mail is for sissies.

i've worked with intelligent people who have some uncontrollable notion to explore spam offers. they diligently open every email, and attachment, promulgating email viruses even with big red signs on the door that instruct them not to. it's got to be a brain disorder that spammers exploit quite profitably.

ROTFLMAO. :D

[brodie]

jeez, you guys dont read do you? i said this is a great app for sending solicited HTML emails to my clients.
im not peddling anything, i am adding to a post i made a few months ago. i am also telling people that there is an app to send HTML email. tell me, why is that for sissies, or are you just being petty? :rolleyes:

im sorry if you guys dont have a client base that requires you send emails out to a mass, but i do. oooh, naughty me :rolleyes:

And email is generally considered correspondence, so no, a website isn't really going to help me update clients. (sorry macubergeek im on a roll)

Sorry if i dont fit into your idea of the net, and how it works, but there are different means and methods for different users.

read before you flame.

[Craig R. Arko]

Sorry, that whole area is such a sore spot with people many don't know or care if they asked for it; they just trash the stuff. Personally I loathe Netscape for ever starting the notion of HTML mail.

What do your clients think about it? They're the ones who count, after all.

[brodie]

they like it, im a photographer, so its a lot easier and a lot more professional getting an ecard rather that an attached jpg. i cant wait for mail apps to use javascipt on the mac, as they do on PCs. much more interaction.

i understand that there are sooo many companies etc that use this implementation unscrupulously, but their are also legit uses.

[mervTormel]

i read. i fired. you chastise what you knew would be coming? you trying to
get us to take a swing at a pitch in the dirt? you even offered to accept
flames. but i prefer to call them 'healthy discussions of important issues'.

hey, batter, batter, batter...

What about blind carbon copy and mail groups? why would that be inadequate?
that would be a respectful way to reach a client. what if there is turnover
at the client and your solicitation looks like spam to the replacement and
you loose a good customer? consider the consequences.

HTML email is vile, and possibly pernicious. it is a wayward abuse of the
medium. it may contain code that i don't want run on my rig. if your clients
have html email enabled, woe be to them.

if it isn't done correctly, it is uglier than a foot for those who disable
html email. leaves a very bad impression. Perhaps losing a client.

even if i want solicited email, it ought to just give me a link to a web
page that i may be interested in. a link in raw format so i can see if any
cgi is going to execute if i click.

now, we have 'xxx for dummies' books in the hands of the masses. you know
what those books provide? dummies everywhere. abusing the mediums. you
should have to pass the email etiquette test to use email, like a driving
test. then, what if a dummy reads the email etiquette page and it dawns on
them what the medium is and they swing entirely the other way to religiously
plain email? Your solicitation may offend them. possible lost client.
consider the consequences.

I have to put my railgun down now to let it cool off. This is a good game,
er, topic.

--
i am often agape at acquaintances who i know have a 9600 baud modem, yet
they email me a 2.5 MB powerpoint doc of some winking bunny. talk about the
patience of Job! and then they take umbrage when i chastise them for such a
horrid waste of bandwidth and their time when they could have sent the link
of the page it was found on.

[macubergeek]

Ok breath in, now out....
Brodie consider a better program called "Letterip" which enables you to manage a mail list of customers. It enables you to add an "unsubscribe" feature where the unsubscriber only has to email "unsubscribe" to a given address to be taken off the distro list. You mentioned you are a photographer and I'm sure you'd like to show off your work...let me suggest again a website...with a carefully choosen url www.brodiephoto.com say....
Use your mac to create electronic portfolios that you can leave behind in meetings with prospective customers. Create slide shows on your web site...

Ok Merv....yes I agree html email bad...plain text good...point taken nuff said.

Brodie...be carefull with bulk email. Again if any one of the recipients complains to your ISP you are guilty until proven innocent and you won't be given the chance to prove anything. Most ISP's in this country are downstream from UU.net. UU.net's AUP policy is broad enough to sweep in many folks like yourself. After they get enough complaints...you are guilty. Their AUP means whatever they say it means....Remember the Internet is not public property, it consists of backbones which are all privately owned, so if you make yourself a pain to them they will get your account cancelled. No hesitatiion, no appeal, no arguments, no defense.
Dude just don't do it if you value your internet access.

[brodie]

merv, i appreciate what your saying, though i dont agree.
i do agree that spam is a B**ch, but lets face it, its never going to stop, like BTL marketing, its here for good.
I 'chastised' you because you flamed me, not the app, and i dont believe it was justified.
and im not going to lose any clients, and my mail appears direct t othem, from me- no Cc or Bcc. because although its obvious its a bulk mail, it 'feel' personal, and in my business its key.
your opinions on 'passing the email test' sound a little too despotic to me, the world doesn't work that way and neither should it, so i hope you were just ranting;)
and if your friends want to use their bandwidth, let them. theres usually a little tick to leave messages over ...k on the server in your email client. ;)

this is/has developed into a flame war, i've never been in one, neither do i want to be, so i'll submit now....

[brodie]

trust me, no art director is going to check back once a month to see whats new, and like sending out your book, its a great reminder to send the 48 sheet poster they passed on their way to work in their email that same morning.
i have a website, i also have interactive CDROM folios etc etc, and it all adds up to you getting the job and the guy who waits for the call getting overlooked.
i appreciate your concerns that i may get busted for sending unsolicited email, have my connection revoked with the possibilty of a lawsuit, but its not going to happen, honestly, its just not that big.

[lerkfish]

brodie, I think where this has gotten to (and why I moved it in anticipation) is that people are going to have problems with the issue of bulk html mailings. That doesn't mean they necessarily have a problem with you personally or how you intend to use it (or at least they shouldn't).

However, if you recall, your first post invited flames ("light up the blowtorch"). Once you do that in a thread, you have no leg to stand on if flames develop. that's sort of throwing gasoline in and handing people matches.

at any rate, back to the topic , as I've been an art director and graphics editor, I can tell you that I would be annoyed as heck to get html bulk emails from someone wanting me to use them, unless I requested that specifically. I'd much rather be emailed links that are clickable IF I'm interested.

also consider that many businesses, publications included, have ITS dept.s that are now automatically putting html mails in a hold queue until they can be "checked out", or configuring their employees mail so they can't receive such emails.

So, again, you're dressing up like a wolf but telling people you are a sheep. You maybe are in fact completely innocent in the way you want to do this, but the sad reality is, that would make you the exception rather than the rule, and ITS departments no longer have a sense of humor when it comes to potentional security holes.

[mervTormel]

i didn't mean to get anybody's dander up. these are good topics for discussion. this is an unusually good forum to discuss them. the folks here are more sanguine and the s/n ratio is really high. at the first sign of opposition you claim 'my biscuits are burning'?! lo, let's not make this place into mr. roger's neighborhood.

i'm glad you clarified your business scope and clients. i can understand your need to personalize your correspondence. but make sure it passes the 'redeeming qualities' test.

as for 'despotic', well, i think we've become too tolerant. tolerance affords us all nothing but brats and disrepectful people poopin' in our yards. don't get me started on tolerance.

i regard you all with respect by default. a good debate is not something to be shy about. i like to think i learn something from every point of view. i guess i would like to think we could debate issues without automatically feeling the fires of hell licking at our heels.

--
Pol Pot - Right Man, Wrong Country

[Craig R. Arko]

OK, OK. Just don't send any my way. :p

[macubergeek]

brodie
I'm not gonna say this again.....marketing any product or service via email is not acceptable. You are in contravention of most ISP's Acceptable use Policies. If you cause any.....repeat ANY complaints to your ISP's abuse department, however innocent or accidental...your internet account goes poof. USE SOME OTHER MEANS OTHER THAN EMAIL. Surely a creative individual like your self can imagine what those other means might be.

[griffman]

OK folks ... if this keeps up as a spam/HTML email debate more than a software discussion, we'll have to relocate it to the Coat Room as opposed to software news and reviews! ;)

My $0.02 on the issue. Regarding emailing your client list in general: If they have opted in, in writing, preferably with a double-opt in (ie sign up on a web site then get a confirming email requiring a reply or another URL visit for final approval), then I think you don't have much to fear.

There are valid reasons to mass email large numbers of people. My company sends nearly 1,000,000 email messages a year to a list of folks that have double opted-in, discussing upcoming activities in their area. The opt-out results on these lists are extremely low; people clearly find the messages useful and informative, even though they are esstentially sales pitches asking them to do something (although it doesn't require any money on their part, just time).

On the other hand, unsolicited email to non-clients is just plain evil, but that's not what Brodie's contemplating.

Finally, on the subject of HTML email: I personally think it's an incredible waste of bandwidth and potentially a security hole. But clearly the folks that write email programs do not feel this way, nor do the majority of the people that use email but are not technical by training. The most often asked question at our office is "Why can't we send HTML emails instead of plain text? We want to present our image to the clients, not just our text..."

As someone else mentioned, LetterRip Pro is a great way to manage these lists; it's what we use, and it's what we have been using for something like seven years now (running on a decrepit old 6100/60, and just cranking along!). But it's not an OS X app.

In short, arguing for or against the existence of bulk mail software due to its role in the spam world is sort of like arguing for or against crowbars because they can be used to smash car windows ... it's not the product that's the problem, it's the people using the product for things that are against the laws or customs of society.

I know my life would have been much more complex these last few years without LetterRip Pro; if others have a need to send HTML emails to an audience that wishes to receive them, then I think having a tool to do the job is a Good Thing.

-rob.

[brodie]

:)

[Phil St. Romain]

Great post, Rob. I'm much in sympathy with brodie's use of this software.

Now if someone were to have posted a review of robot software which roams the web harvesting email addresses, I'd understand the outcry. But even then, if you use those addresses to invite people to join a list, there's nothing really wrong with that.

A Coat Room discussion on what constitutes spam and how to deal with it might be a good idea. Part of the problem is how to define it in such a way as to not discount legitimate business practices. And while we're at it, maybe someone could say something about spam mail that comes through the USPO. That's an even bigger waste in terms of paper, ink, postage, etc.

[brodie]

thanks Phil. i've started the thread, its in the cloakroom (http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2278) as recommended. maybe a poll would be an idea, although i'm not sure of the choices.