X11, XDarwin, Xfree86, XTools, etc...

[wkm2424]

just wanted to ask somebody to clear something up. i understand that X11 is a windowing system, and there are several variations of it (X11, XDarwin, Xfree86, and from what little i understand, XTools).

what i don't understand, though, is why would i choose one over the other? there's X11, which runs on mac os x just fine. but there's also xdarwin and others as well. on my imac dv, i have X11 installed, and on my g4, i installed xdarwin, just to see what the differences might be, and to (hopefully!) increase my intelligence even just a bit. what benefits does one windowing system have over the other?

[AHunter3]

I had XFree86 installed under 10.1.5, back when there was no Apple X11. Also chose to use it under Jaguar. Under Panther, I went with Apple's X11. They are different implementations of the same thing. The main advantage to Apple's X11 is that you can select it as an installation option when you're installing the OS; with XFree86 you have to compile it from source code. (Actually there may be installers available, but in the beginning at any rate you had to install from source code). The Apple version uses (at least by default) OS X's own native GUI for window and widget appearance. XFree86 requires a window manager — it uses TWM by default. I'm under the impression that XFree86 may be a bit slower, perhaps for this reason. Originally the Apple X11 did not provide the option of taking over your whole screen (i.e., giving you an X11 Desktop) as XFree86 could, but now they both can.

XDarwin is not a third contender, it's just the little launcher app that starts up the XFree86 environment (with dialog to hide/show the MacOS X native Desktop & OS X app windows etc). It's an alternative to issuing a command line instruction from Terminal to cue it up.

XTools isn't Yet Another X11 Environment, either. It's development tools. I seem to recall having to install them in order to use Fink and Fink Commander to download and build X11 apps, just as I had to install the earlier flavors of Dev Tools to do so under XFree86 / Jaguar (and Puma before that).

[sao]

wkm2424 wrote:
i understand that X11 is a windowing system, and there are several variations of it...


1- What is X11?

The X Window System was created in the mid-1980s at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. X11 is a graphics display system with a network-transparent client-server architecture. Is the de facto standard graphics system in the Unix world.

http://www.x.org/

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2- What is XFree86??

XFree86 is an "Open-Source" implementation of X11 (X Window System). It is made by The XFree86 Project, Inc. and it's available free of charge and redistributable.

http://www.xfree86.org/

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To complicate matters:*

3- What's XDarwin?

It is the name given to "XFree86 for MacOS X" and 'includes' a version of the "XDarwin.app". Check the XonX Project (X "on" X)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xonx/

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To complicate matters further, Apple called their release "Apple's X11":

4- What's Apple's X11?

Is a "custom" X11 implementation made by Apple, based on "XFree86-4.3" which includes Quartz rendering and accelerated OpenGL.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/

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wkm2424 wrote:
what benefits does one windowing system have over the other?

In a few words, some of the biggest advantages of Apple's X11 over XFree86 4.3 released by the XFree86.org:


1. The proprietary quartz-wm offers good integration with Aqua.
In Jaguar, a 'similar' integration is available also with OroborOSX.

2- Apple's X server is faster than XFree86 4.3.0.


--The speed has been equalized with the latest XFree86 releases (4.3.99 and 4.4) as they incorporate many of the improvements made by Apple engineers in Apple's X11.

.

[wkm2424]

ahunter3 -

so what you're saying is that xdarwin is simply a launcher app whose only function is to start up either xfree86 or apple's x11? when you say "start up a xfree86 environment", what do you mean - are you referring to desktop environments like gnome, kde, etc.?

let's see if i got this right: i need xdarwin to run either apple's x11 or xfree86 (which are the same thing?), which in turn runs a desktop environment of my choice? i also need xtools in order to download and build x11 apps via fink (or fink commander).

i don't quite see the significance of xdarwin. is it even necessary? on my imac dv, i installed apple's x11 without using xdarwin (to my knowledge, at least). i realize that there are different ways to do the same thing, but with the vast amount of information about all this, it gets a bit confusing. i know, i know...i should take my time and spend the rest of my life learning all this, but what can i say? i'm impatient!!

[sao]

AHunter3 wrote:
XTools isn't Yet Another X11 Environment, either. It's development tools. I seem to recall having to install them in order to use Fink and Fink Commander to download and build X11 apps, just as I had to install the earlier flavors of Dev Tools to do so under XFree86 / Jaguar (and Puma before that).

No, you are confusing XTools with Apple's "Xcode Tools" (Developer Tools).

Xtools is a commercial product of Tenon Intersystems. It is a version of X11 for Mac OS X, based on XFree86:

http://www.tenon.com/products/xtools/



wkm2424 wrote:
let's see if i got this right: i need xdarwin to run either apple's x11 or xfree86 (which are the same thing?), which in turn runs a desktop environment of my choice? i also need xtools in order to download and build x11 apps via fink (or fink commander).

Nope, that's all wrong. :)

.

[wkm2424]

great. i feel real smart. :rolleyes:

so i need to decide between xdarwin and apple's x11 to use as my x windows system, right?

[sao]

Although a bit outdated (up to 2002), there is a short but interesting "XFree86-history" at the Fink web-site:

All started.....when John Carmack (remember Doom? and now Doom 3) ported XFree86 to Mac OS X Server....

http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/history.php?phpLang=en

[wkm2424]

from what i've read on the web, it looks like the best option for somebody like me would be to go with apple's x11. would i be wise in doing that? there's no real reason i should go with xdarwin as a beginner learning about this stuff, is there?

[sao]

wkm2424 wrote:
it looks like the best option for somebody like me would be to go with apple's x11. would i be wise in doing that?

You wrote in your first post above: "on my imac dv, i have X11 installed, and on my g4, i installed xdarwin", so play around with both, and see which one you feel more comfortable with. In Panther, I prefer to use at the moment Apple's X11, my second choice would be to install xfree86-4-4.0-1 with Fink from the unstable branch.