Appleworks versus Ms. Office

[Phil St. Romain]

For my needs, Appleworks gets the job done. Its word processor is powerful, its drawing and painting programs outstrip anything Office can provide, and its spreadsheet is adequate. In addition, Appleworks has a handy database program that is easy to set up, highly configurable, and works well with label lists. When I need to save into an MS file format, it's no problem, and I haven't had any trouble opening Word, Excel, and database files.

MS Office has Entourage, OK. That's really nice! If I could buy it as a stand-alone program, I would. But it hardly justifies the price of the office suite of programs for me. Eudora and Mail.app work just fine.

Power Point is much more powerful than Appleworks' presentation program, but not something I use much.

So all in all, I'll save the money I'd otherwise spend on Office for other programs--like the Photoshop upgrade, which I've just purchased (but not yet received). :)

[wayneyoung]

Wow, first one to vote! Other than Phil, of course. Anyway, Appleworks does all I need as a home user. My oldest daughter was learning MS Word on Windows in school, but uses Appleworks at home, and finds it "different" but easy to use. Besides, the security risks in Word alone are enough to keep me away from it at home, have to use it at work, but that is not my security problem ;)

[AKcrab]

I need another ballot option:
I use Appleworks because I don't want to purchase Office.

Appleworks works, but the spreadsheet module could really use some help.

[Phil St. Romain]

Good suggestion, AK. The poll is still relatively new so I just went and added the option.

[AKcrab]

Nice twist to my option! Makes me sound pretty cheap. (Which I am.) :D

[AHunter3]

Word-processorwise, I'm holding out for Nisus X. If it never comes, I'll probably buy AppleWorks just for the word processor (half the time when I need a word processor under 8/9, I still reach for MacWrite Pro, in fact).

I hate Word, always have. I'd use MacWrite in Classic for the rest of my life before I'd install Word X. Heck, I'd use WordPro in Virtual PC for the rest of my life before I'd install WordX.

I do have Excel installed. I've always liked Excel. I think it is probably the best thing Microsoft ever put their name on.

I have no use for PowerPoint or anything else in its genre. (Did anything else in its genre survive? Gold Disk Astound, Lotus Freelance, Adobe Persuasion?) They all seem like overtouted programs for generating outlines that look like diner placemats. If I wanted to design a presentation I'd write it in FileMaker.

Eudora is my email app. It has my email dating back to 1991, divided up into a dozen-plus separate mailboxes, and I've got custom filters down to my kneecaps. If QualComm were to discontinue Eudora, I'd probably give it up and switch to something else...some time aroung 2009.

Summary: A resounding "yes" to Excel but Excel does not an Office make. No Office. No AppleWorks either, for that matter. A less integrated combo of the apps I really like: Nisus, Excel, Eudora, FileMaker.

[sbur]

For word processing, I'm pretty much required to use MS Word or Word Perfect (which isn't available for Mac) because that's what the publishers tell me they want. I've invested enough time in learning the ins-an-outs of Word, so I don't mind using it now.

Excel rocks...I wish I knew more tricks. Our finances are all done on excel speadsheets now.

I'm learning to like the calander in Entourage, but will never let a MS product see my email or address book.

Powerpoint has become a mainstay as well. We used to use glass slides, now most places we give presentations have projection units with computer hookups, so powerpoint is the standard.

Because I use every component, the Office suite is a pretty good package. As an academic user, the price isn't as obscene. I must say, however, that I'mreally disappointed in the lack of postscript compatibility between PC and Mac Office products. PS line art generated on a mac and inserted into a PPT or word document look terrible on a PC, and documents with similar line art generated on a PC (not PS) is terrible on a mac!

[perrykibler]

Word, but only because Appleworks won't spell check or grammar check while I type. If apple ever fixes that, I'll stop using word.

[meancode]

hey all,

im an old school apple works user (the old apple works, on the ][e) and thus used ClarisWorks/Apple Works on the Mac OS for a while. when Claris lauched FMP, i used it instead of the database component. so i didnt use that part of AppleWorks any more. i never really used the paint part of AppleWorks, MacPaint was out and i used that.

when Office 4.2.1 came out i was far from impressed, and kept using Claris Works. when Office 98 i was still not that impressed. i was, at the time, still a die hard Eudora user as well. then Office 2001 came out, wich was a huge improvement even over Office 98 - Office 2001 also had Entourage. and i loved it cuz i could manage my Palm with it, and do my email. Entourage has things in it i cant live without now. like the mailing list manager, and the filters and the address book component are a lot nicer then Eudora.

granted Office 2001 cost me $10 b/c of our university making a deal with the devil. but it was $10 more than i was paying for AppleWorks. i had always used word, excel, powerpoint, i just didnt really like the way they worked compared to AppleWorks.

well now i hardly use AppleWorks, i think their "improvements" to the UI are a but over the top, and while i could do everything i do in the office suite in AppleWorks, i just use Office (got Office X for $10 as well). i have come to like Office X a lot more than the latest installment of AppleWorks. and it sync's better with the PC folk i have to deal with at college.

[saint.duo]

I use Word and Entourage. I have absolutely no need for Excel or PowerPoint, but I do have the entire Office suite. I got it as a gift, so I didn't have to shell out anything for it.

That said, I could use AppleWorks for my word processing needs, but have gotten to the point that I am better at using Word.

Entourage, I could not go without. With the calendar and invitations feature, it works great for me. I never could get used to Eudora, Claris emailer and the like. I used to use Netscape before it got named "communicator", at which point I switched to IE and Outlook Express.

[drjones]

Most people just don't care about well-designed software. They are given Word to use--it's the suite used in their office, etc, etc, long list. I have to support it. You'd think that wouldn't be needed. Fact is, it stinks because it lacks PostScript. So does AppleWorks, or maybe it just feels that way. If you really want to put pics and text on a screen and get what you are thinking of in your head-gotta go to Adobe. PageMaker 6.52 was so much better at this. I wish I could afford InDesign.
But if you have an upgradable AppleWorks and room for it, keep it around. it opens corrupted Word files even when they've lost the icon. Thiis happens regularly around here when folks edit a Word file in their email (my other favorite--Exchange/Outlook 2k client) without saving it to disk first. Just 2click the bad file, AW comes up, MacLink runs, it opens, you save in Word-dot-whatever.
Still, in terms of user experience, they both rank with $29 architect type programs. Just my view.
:rolleyes:

[ThinkPad]

I only have Appleworks, and I don't use that. The spreadsheet is very poor for my needs. I still use Lotus SmartSuite on on of my PC's when I need some serious applications. Sure would like to see it available for OS X :)

[eagle_eyes]

I hate it, but I must use it. I give props to Excel (did MS even make this, or did they steal it?), I use it all the time. However since I have to deal with so many PC peoples who know little to nothing I have to use word and powerpoint to share files. I find myself often using OS X TextEdit to do most of the typing stuff I do for myself. It is simple, works well, and it makes it a lot easier to use the files if I have to drop to command line for something. I would never use powerpoint to actually do a presentation unless I had to on threat of life and limb! But since I do not often do presentations I have no preference as to what I would prefer to use. I refuse to touch their email stuff, I fought the MIS department at work long and hard to keep eudora. I have been campaining to get it off all the PCs around there to, but with no success. So I just get to laugh everytime the most current email virus goes around, and none of their machines work because outlook passed it to everyone.

[RacerX]

I have been using TextEdit for most of my word processing on many of my systems (OPENSTEP, Rhapsody and Mac OS X) and only use AppleWorks on very rare occasions. AppleWorks covers all my above and beyond word processing tasks, and I don't have to worry about what MS Office is either letting into or actually doing to my system. Actually, I think I would move to Okito Composer as the next step up from TextEdit before using AppleWorks in the word processing area... I just haven't had any need to yet.

[sean]

i have to use ms word. i teach at a university and word is pretty standardized around here. i could still use appleworks if that was the only issue...it's not. i grade papers using the Editing and document Review features found in word. these do not work in appleworks. also, when i add comments to a word document using the Comments feature, these comments do not show up in appleworks. i have appleworks and would use it if it had the reviewing and editing features found in word.

[dbhill]

No one has mentioned the draw module of AppleWorks, which has no parallel in MS Office, and I find most useful for maps, flyer layout and org. charts. I use draw in AW, and Excel in Office. So how about a new category in the poll: "Use the best features from each."

~Dennis

[gkar]

Can you create text styles that change the font face as well as text attributes? I can't. Do your text styles reliably change all the text attributes? Mine don't.

Strike 1. I utilize paragraph and text styles extensively in my writing.

Do you use macros?

Strike 2. I used to use macros extensively in AppleWorks. Obviously not any more.

Have more than a few fonts? Carbon programs don't have access to the Cocoa font selector - not that it is all that great either. Dealing with fonts in OS X became worse than it ever was in previous OS versions. At least in Word if I know the font name I can type it into the combo box.

Strike 3 and AppleWorks is out.

But wait, there is more. If you are on a network, put an AppleWorks document on the server (or make it available for filesharing) and then watch what happens when several people try to open the file. And this is just one of the bugs I registered with Apple the day I got the program two years ago.

[mikemc]

Have any of you tried utilizing openoffice at openoffice.org? They have a Mac OSX release. I have used it on Windows, and I'm pretty happy with it, but I was just wondering if anyone saw this as an anti-MS, other-than-Appleworks, solution for their desktop needs?

Also, does AppleWorks come standard with an Apple purchase, or is this something extra to buy?

Thanks,
Mike

[gkar]

AW ships with consumer Macs - the iMac and iBook but not the G4 'Book or desktops.

OpenOffice isn't an Aqua application - it requires XWindows. Now I'm a geek and that doesn't much bother me. But to be blunt..any application that has a different GUI interface than Aqua isn't going to make it in the world that the Mac traditionally sells to. There is nothing user friendly about having the user interface act differently from application to application. That is Windows - not the Mac.

BTW, this is, in my estimation anyway, a major flaw of Apple's implementation of Classic in OS X too.

[mikemc]

Whoops... My mistake...

I looked at this picture a while back :

http://whiteboard.openoffice.org/screenshots/images/compare_ms_osx.png

and saw the image on the left side, rather than the right... the left side is MS Office... hmm.... maybe I was drinking ?

oh well... Appleworks looks like it will do everything that I need, so I save the Office costs, and keep my money out of the hands of the giant... :)

Later,
Mike

[gkar]

AW has much going for it but the OS X version is very much a work in progress. At one time I was in nearly daily contact with one of the programmers. We talked about many of its shortcomings and what might be done to fix them. From the way he talked and rushed me to get approved as a member of the Apple Quality Assurnace Team I was certain AW 7 was just around the corner - last summer. But I haven't heard from him in a long time and my messages to him have gone unanswered lately.

Head over to versiontracker, click on the OS X tab, and do a search on word processor. You'll turn up several projects that are currently in progress. Two are especially interesting to me - Okita Write and Mariner Word - I think I got the names right. Mariner has been on the OS 9 platform for quite a while and I know many happy customers.

Also head over to nisus.com and take a look at NisusWrite. You can even download a free version to find out how you like it. They are working on an OS X version. Nisus isn't everyone's cup of tea. Certainly not mine - but it has very passionate followers. And, as a text processor it is second to none. For that reason alone I can't wait for the OS X version.

[scowls]

I use Appleworks for two things, newsletters (word processor) and mailing lists (database).

I find the spreadsheet to be too dumbed down to be usable (though I haven't really tried it in a few years).

My biggest problem with Appleworks are it's bugs. Graphics for some reason have never printed cleanly - for the logo on my newsletter I have to print a page with the logo in MS Word and then run it through the printer a second time for the newsletter which I do in Appleworks. I haven't tried to print from the newest version, so perhaps they've overcome this. The inability to search for paragraph and tab markers also causes me a lot of grief.

The database program is really nicely put together, but it's littered with annoying bugs and missing elements. Files accumulate deleted data over time and you have to eventually start over with a fresh database or the thing becomes unstable (sometimes the database will just lose a bunch of records). BUT there is no way to copy layouts or field definitions, so you have to build the thing from scratch each time. Styles don't seem to work right. Searches are buggy and difficult to edit (though this seems to have improved in the latest version). And it doesn't seem to work with Mail at all. I have to copy all my addresses in Word, replace all the carriage returns with commas and then copy them into the To field of an e-mail.

Finally there's the lack of support for the Windows version, which is painfully buggy (even the basic function of copy and paste doesn't work quite right with the database program). I need to be able to work on both platforms, unfortunately....

Grumble.... I'm going to keep using it, but they need to put some fresh energy into the package.... In the meantime I will continue to use Word and Excel for the things that they do better.

[phidauex]

I use office mostly. I get it at work and it serves my needs. Honestly though, I do very little word processing. I write a lot, but it always ends up on the web, for which I use Dreamweaver for the bulk, and BBEdit to clean it up and to tweak things to be the way I like them.

One thing i really like about Office is powerpoint. I use it a lot at work, as an a/v tech, and are always setting up people's computers to make their presentations. Its at a hospital, and to my glee, nearly all of the new chief residents this year bought macs. With the quartz smoothing on powerpoint presentations, they just spank the PC laptops. People's jaws just drop when those antialiased graphics hit the screen. People come up and ask me about them "I didn't know macs could look so... good.." they say, looking down at their pitiful Dell with a sense of regret.

I love it. But anyway, there really aren't any other presenter programs of much worth.. I have one doctor who presents with ghostview on redhat linux, and I always give him props. He doesn't get the antialiased graphics, but he is sticking it to the man in a good way, so I support that. :)

peace,
phidauex

[greek-irish]

I have been a Word user since 1990, but switched to Nisus about four years ago. Can't wait for Nisus X to show up. In the meantime I have begun evaluating Mariner Write/Calc and ThinkFree Office, both for OS X. From the word processing stand point, I like Mariner Write the best. In fact, at this point I will use it until Nisus makes the conversion.

Mariner Calc and the ThinkFree Calc are decent spreadsheets - but neither have macro capability. Without that, they cannot be considered alternatives to Excel, at least from a power-user point of view. Charting also is not as well done. But I'm still evaluating.

I have been experimenting with RagTime 5 for OS 9 (free download) which has word processor, page layout, spreadsheet capability, no database. Quite powerful, but again the spreadsheet does not have macro capability. The OS X version is to be released in September.

[gmleeii]

For me word quit being useful with version 4. I went to Word Perfect for a while but now do all my text with BBedit. I have tried Nisus and Mariner Write though. But I still prefer BBedit. The only other module I need is a spreadsheet ocassionally. I use to use CricketGraph and then DeltaGraph. Appleworks suffices here but is obviously not the program that Excel is. But again I have to be threatened with death to use a MS product. But at the same time I have no problem with people who do use it I just like making it hard on myself.

[Treavize]

I use TextEdit most often. I use AppleWorks for word processing. I haven't had much success with AW's spreadsheet. Excell seems to me to be the only worthwhile spreadsheet. The really frustrating thing about this debate is that Micro$oft has sucessfully cornered the market with Office. Open standads are needed. Apple Works should work with M$ Office should work with StarOffice. But then I quess M$ and others would have to inovate in order to maintain market share. It would be nice if Bill would play nice and share.I feel better having ranted a bit. Now if I could just get my sister to save as RTF.

[Treavize]

I just notice that Apple has an update for AppleWorks 6. I have version 6.2.2, and am dowloading 6.2.4 now. Just thought someone may want to know about the update. It never showed up in Software Update.

[wgscott]

Though it grieves me to say so, Word and Powerpoint simply work much better for me than Appleworks. Quicktime movies play better in powerpoint (for God sakes, why?) and Appleworks has too many text formatting bugs (occasional glitches in margins and stuff that looks really shoddy and unprofessional). I spend half my life hunting down and turning off unwanted oriface "features" -- I would gladly PAY for Appleworks Pro if it just had basic high-quality functionality without lots of stupid whistles and bells like the microsoft engineers seem to think sell their programs. Appleworks drawing program stinks. A printout of a SCREEN SHOT of Applework's display looks much better than a direct printout from an Appleworks file. The vectorization algorithm just doesn't work properly. It is unusable it is so bad. I wish this weren't the case. But it needs lots of work.

[SunByrne]

Since most of my colleagues use Word, I have to when I'm working with them. But for my own documents, I almost always use AppleWorks. What I really wish is that FrameMaker were OS X native. No, strike that, what I really wish is that MacWrite Pro hadn't died.

I also routinely use PowerPoint. I would love it if there were a viable alternative, but I haven't found one. AppleWorks is terrible for this.

I have never touched Entourage and I'm not even sure what it does.

Contrary to lots of other posters, I can't stand Excel--very clunky UI. AppleWorks spreadsheet is perfectly adequate for my spreadsheet needs, which rarely exceed simple arithmetic anyway. If I'm going to do something more complex, I'll write code in a real language any day before learning the arcane and unportable Excel macro nonsense. I only use Excel to open files other people have sent me.