Sane person's guide to upgrading to Jaguar

[Craig R. Arko]

Here's one I'm not even sure where to post, so I'll start it here and see what happens. :p

Assuming that a person buys Jaguar on or about the 24th., what kind of an upgrade plan should be pursued?

There are certain 3rd party haxies which are bound to break, the resource format will probably change so that current themes wiil break, there's a new gcc so many of the open source compilations will need new makefiles or they will break, and perhaps some of the drivers wiil not functrion as is.

So my question to y'all is, how should we collectively prepare for and conduct this upgrade to minimize the problems we might encounter?

I'm a firm believer in prevention, as opposed to troubleshooting, so I intend to back up the system and start from scratch, adding in old items individually to verify what works and what breaks. I'll start (or add to) threads in this area to report on progress, while leaving specfic troubleshooting questions to the Help areas.

Maybe it would be a good idea to start a checklist about specific things to watch out for? What say ye?

[AHunter3]

I kinda figured I'd let y'all try it out first, give the shareware developers some lead time to Jag up their offerings, give Apple opportunity to squish some bugs. My little WallStreet isn't gonna take off like a scalded kittycat if I put Jaguar on it. I've gbot 10.1.5 behaving nicely and I'm in no hurry to toss spanners into the works.

I sure as hell ain't going there until I know that X-Assist, FruitMenu, Duality's Classic Platinum, QuicKeys, Launch Items X, Timbuktu, DAVE, WindowShade X, DefaultFolder X, SwitchPic, Fink + Fink Commander, XFree86, and MouseZoom are ready to go there with me.

(Although if Margi Systems releases a Jaguar-only driver for their Display-to-Go auxiliary monitor CardBus card, that could kinda make me rethink things a bit. I'm really really tired of being limited to a single screen on the old WallStreet under MacOS X)

[jmeador]

For what it's worth, Jaguar (or at least the last dev build) runs significantly faster on my 233 G3 powerbook than 10.1.5 did. At least 25%, maybe 50% faster.

The only broken thing I've run across so far has been sendmail (not suprising)

[dbhill]

Ahh, an opportunity to provide a service to the community. After backing everything up to a bootable FW drive, I'm just going to jump in and load up 10.2 into my existing system, watch what breaks, then reappear on this forum with the 'flotsam and jetsum report'. Wish me luck.

~Dennis

[vickishome]

I'll be sitting on the sidelines with AHunter3. I haven't had OS X up and running long enough to even consider moving to Jaguar. I also make it my practice to avoid anything.0 because it's just not in my blood. There are others who truly enjoy the adventure. They can blaze the trail for me.

However, I think some kind of listing would be great to know what works and what doesn't work. It would be helpful to those of you who are making the move to Jag while giving those of us on the sidelines some way of determining when it's ready for us to make the move up.

[bluehz]

Testing the waters here - latest dev 6C115. Installed over a mirrored version of my highly customized OS X 10.1.5 setup. Install went fine - over the top of this system. So far only minor glitches - in particular FruitMenu does not work, but MaxMenus works fine and offers similar functionality.

Here's a quick breakdown of what I have discovered so far:

BROKEN
----------
FruitMenu - works briefly, then crashes
Some CMM - not identified yet.
Tinker Tool - will not load
USB Overdrive - seemed to work at first
Codetek Virtual Desktop

WORKS
---------
Quickeys
MaxMenus
Windowshade
Default Folder (?)
TypeIt4Me

So far every app I tried worked beautifully (e.g. Eudora, Mozilla, BBEdit, etc). I did not try any of the new "iApps" as I do not have much need for them. Although I did try the iChat and it picked up everything for my AIM account from Proteus and connected right away - no settings necessary.

Of more concern to me - and this may be a byproduct of installing over a mirrored system. The Terminal/CLI seem extremely sluggish. Especially when authenticating (ala su or sudo). There seems to be a brief pause between each command and execution. For example - a simple LS in OS X 10.1.5 is instantaneous - in 10.2 you issue the cmd, there is a slight pause, the total number of files comes up, there is another slight pause, 10-20 items in the list may appear, another pause, etc. Hopefully this is just a fluke of the dev release and will be fixed - I live in the CLI world for the simple fact it is lightning fast. For me the pause are unacceptabe. In general - there does appear to be a noticeable speed bump on my aging G4/400 (AGP).

Of course - all the development tools are broken - so no compiling for the time being.

[dm2243]

earlier this morning i raised a similar issue on a fink thread:

"either one does a clean install, wiping out everything, then re-installing and re-compiling fink stuff - and this could take weeks, as the kde story implies - or one attempts update on top prexisiting installations, updating and correcting files and configurations on a case-by-case basis - and this, too, could take weeks, as the sendmail in 10.1.5 story implies."

(this almost makes me not want to install jaguar...)

i believe we should grab the first of the two horns - which i gather is craig's suggesetion - rebuilding our systems gradually one bit at a time (as it were). the experimental method is the best approach, with each new installation being subject to rigorous testing and discussion. then each one of us could report the results of the testing in a specially created jaguar forum in threads like "jaguar and sendmail," "jaguar and mysql," jaguar and french roast," etc.

of course, it would be really helpful to hear from developers who've been playing around w/jaguar for a while: what broke, and how?

[dm2243]

i see someone anticipated my request...thanks bluhz

[bluehz]

dm2243 - its is quite a dilemma. I never feel quit like my system is running as well after using a mirrored drive in OS X. Can't put my finger on it - just not right. On the other hand - I have been using OS X religously for over a year now. Since learning how to compile and install I have been going 'unix-crazy'. I could not even attempt to caclulate the 100's of hours spent customizing this system to work at the level it works at now - which suits my needs. I discovered Fink a little late so unfortunately a lot of my customization is embedded into the core folders (/usr/bin, etc. as opposed to /sw, etc.). My dilemma then - install over or make some feeble attempt at sorting out this mess of a machine that performs and meets my every needs and synching that stuff directly. My experience with partial syncs has been less that exemplary - so that leaves me pretty much in an install OVER mode.

I just wish I could get a simple list of what NOT to copy to a new system - ala Netinfo stuff, etc. I have asked that query on many a board and never really received a good straight answer. I believe it is within these files that should NEVER be copied to a mirrored install that I am seeing some performance and general issues within a mirrored drive that has then been updated to 10.2.

[dsk]

I just wish I could get a simple list of what NOT to copy to a new system
Amen to that. Personally, I believe less is more. I will backup the users folders and the applications--that's pretty much it. I will refrain from copying any old preference files to the new system, unless they are for an app that is running pristinely AND has a great deal of settings that I wouldn't want to reconfigure by hand. It is a fair amount of legwork to reinstall customized stuff such Unix related things, but I figure it's worth it to have a completely clean system. I guess it's harder for you, bluehz, considering all the Unix work you've done. I use fink almost exclusively and it will not be hard for me to start from scratch thanks to it (assuming fink is/becomes compatible with Jaguar).

Personally, I'm looking forward to Jaguar as an opportunity to reformat this hard drive and get a fresh system going. I'm willing to put in a couple hours to do it. Here's hoping I don't loose anything important in the process.

David

[Craig R. Arko]

Thanks bluehz, for that start on a list. Was there anything which rendered the system unbootable or caused a panic?

I see that updates are starting to appear on VT to add 10.2 compatibility. Frank Vercruesse has updates for ASM in the works, and since he's one of the folks who figured out the menubar addition API in the first place that knowledge should make the rounds pretty quick.

[saint.duo]

broken, let's see here...

TinkerTool - won't load (already noted)
ClassicSpy.menu - runs just long enough for the icon to appear/disappear, then is gone
Apple Remote Desktop - admin app thinks it's not installed, client pref pane crashes system prefs

SnapzPro didn't work, but got updated
Carracho client used to quit unexpectedly after choosing "quit", that got updated today

That is all I have found so far. QT6 itself broke VLC, but that has been updated, as well.

As far as how I'm going to update, I did an "archive and install". That way, I had a clean system. I can re-create 10.1.5 from the backup if I have to. So, I just dove in.

[Craig R. Arko]

Not being one of those with any flight time on the pre-release builds, I'm just going to keep asking questions.

What about contextual menu items? OSXVnc? Toast?

One additional thing to remember to backup is /Library/Application Support/.

I'll try to collate this stuff over the next few weeks, and produce a little PDF with the collected and edited info by about the 20th.

[bluehz]

Craig - I had no problems booting whatsoever. I can say that the installer is a bit finicky about the disk it will install on. First time I tried it on my iBook 2001 - it showed no disks available even though I cleaned off a partition for it. Tried it on the G4, worked perfectly installing over 10.1.5. I didn't like the performance I was getting from that so I erased the volume on the G4 and went to install it again. Installer got into the install process and crapped out - something about disk problem. Note I just ran extensive testing and maintence on that disk so I know its fine. I rebooted into 10.1.5 again and ran Disk Utility to erase the partition again - attempted reinstall and it went fine.

I was rather impressed that the "install over" went so well - in terms of - it booted right up, recognized all my prefs, etc.

The reason I wiped and did a clean install was to see if the problems I was experiencing in the sluggish terminal were related. I can tell you that after a clean install - the terminal is working speedy as ever now.

I have managed to get MaxMenus running (I have to have some method of quickly accessing applications, etc!). At first it kept crashing - then I noticed it was only crashing when attempting to access menus with "Recent..." type menu items. Disabled all the Recent stuff in all the menus within MaxMenus and all is well now.

Now if I can just figure out how to get all my customizations from my 10.1.5 into the 10.2.....I miss my stuff :( If I were to do it all over again and go completely FINK oriented - would all my customizations be in that single /sw directory and ease transition next time? I don't know why - but I am not that fond of Fink....it does a great job and all...but I just don't feel like I am really getting my hands dirty and learning anything new as I do when I compile by hand. I guess I could get used to it if it aided system upgrades.

[saint.duo]

I haven't had any problems with Toast, or even Virtual PC! I was quite surprised that the only major application that I use that was broken was one written by Apple (ARD).

[bluehz]

I have never been able to get Toast 5.1.4 to work on any system - always gives some sort of drive error. Have never had any problems normally.

Toast 5.1.3 - works great with both internal Plextor 12/10/24 and external QPS 24/10/32 in APS Firewire case.

Aging HP Scanjet "the tank" IIcx works with Vuescan and Adaptec SCSI 2906 (the cheapo)

Stuffit Deluxe 6.5 OK

FileMaker 6.0v2 OK

I can pretty much say I have not run into a straight app that would not run yet. Incompatibilities are more in the extensions, cmm, prefpanes, etc.

[dm2243]

bluhz and saint - as long as you're doing Q & A, what about
sendmail
XDarwin
other unix apps you care to mention
thanks

[Phil St. Romain]

Thoroughly spoiled on external firewire drives and Carbon Copy Cloner, what I plan to do is back up the well-oiled machine that 10.1.5 is on my iMac and Pismo, completely trash most of the OS 9 stuff I've had gathering dust on my drives, then re-partition the two computers: each with three: one small one for Classic and a few OS 9 apps, one for my 10.1.5 system, and another with 10.1.5 that I'll install Jaguar over. I'll play around with Jaguar and see what works, what doesn't, having 10.1.5 to fall back on if needed. When Jag is working properly with all the apps I need, I'll repartition again, keeping one for the Classic set-up, and another for Jaguar. That 10.1.5 backup will remain on my firewire drive for some time to come, however.

How's that for playing all ends from the middle? ;)

[pink]

actually I think I'll try both. First install over 10.1.5, see how it works, then do an erase install.:)
Cheer, pink

[Craig R. Arko]

Phil and pink, you both seem like remarkably sane people! :D

Continuing my questions, what about hardware? I remember when 10.1.3 (I think) broke Lerk's MO drive, and we'd like to catch stuff like that early. So have there been any hardware issues intoduced, with printers, 3rd party mice or more exotic items that people have tried?

[pink]

Originally posted by Craig R. Arko
[B]Phil and pink, you both seem like remarkably sane people!
*flush*;)
anyway, I'd rather call myself "experienced", in the sense of : "experience is the wisdom of the dumb" (that's what my grandfather used to say...) :D
As for hardware: the only luxury I have is an iMic and I don't expect problems with that.

Cheers

[bluehz]

Clean install responding much better than install over 10.1.5. Migrating items manually. I moved my /usr/local dir over which contains many of my customizations and it appears much is broken - mostly regarding dydld items. Is there no solution for this other that recompiling and installing. I moved the req. libraries over also - but it appears they are not being recognized.

[ebow]

Sorry to post a Q here instead of advice, but I figure more casual readers like me might need this cleared up when preparing to move to Jaguar:

When you say "clean install," is that the same as a clean install under OS 9? What I mean is, will it give me a new /Library, /System/Library, and ~/Library (all being "System Folder" in OS 9-speak) while leaving the rest of my files alone? Or for OS X, does a clean install imply wiping the HD clean and installing again?

I've been "good" and lived entirely in my user folder and the /Applications folder. However, I've moved my user folder to a Users partition. Will a clean install leave my user files alone? I certainly hope so... important stuff to know!

thanks,
ebow

[Craig R. Arko]

ebow, I'm in a similar situation as yours, with the Home area 'offworld', as Merv would put it.

What I plan to do is a full backup, and then erase the OS X system partition, while installing from scratch. The secret is to create the first admin user with the same ID and password as the old installation.

Then you should be able to get into NetInfo (or OpenDirectory, as the case may be) and re-establish the connection to the user directories. No user data should be at risk. Some preferences will probably need to be updated.

[bluehz]

I think most when most people are referring to "clean install" in OS X it implies completely wiping the drive or volume before installing.

[mervTormel]

Originally posted by ebow
...What I mean is, will it give me a new /Library, /System/Library, and ~/Library (all being "System Folder" in OS 9-speak) while leaving the rest of my files alone? Or for OS X, does a clean install imply wiping the HD clean and installing again?...
important distinction!

your ~/Library is not a 'system folder' and will not be touched. your library is just a mask of items in the system config. in fact, the install shouldn't touch anything in /Users , nor /usr/local

as a franken-install, i cleaned a partition, then moved just my /Users dir over and installed on top of that. nothing very interesting about this. but, there were no touched files in /Users after the install.

note that your new nidb will be out of sync with your users/groups if you've added any, in this case.

[dsk]

Has anyone used Jaguar with a PowerMate? Hopefully Griffin (http://www.griffintechnology.com/) will fix whatever new problems are created by 10.2, but it would be nice for it to be completely seamless.

David

[bassi]

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/jaguarissues.html

[Craig R. Arko]

Thanks, bassi! Not too bad, I've only got 8 things off their list of broken or anomalous apps and utilities. ;)

[cybergoober]

For those running Jaguar wanting TinkerTool:

Click Me! (http://www.bresink.de/osx/TinkerTool2J.html)

[Craig R. Arko]

OK, here (http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4614) is Sao's report about Jaguar and fink. Plan on new Dev Tools for sure.

[saint.duo]

strangely, i'm not running any UNIX apps, except mldonkey (crash! run, run, run, crash!, etc), and dnstracer, which runs fine.

[Craig R. Arko]

I just read something about the Jag Installer being able to 'archive' the old system while performing a clean install.

If this were so, it would simplify a great many things.

I've also read that some people (not just developers) are receiving the package ahead of schedule. Anyone been so lucky?

[Craig R. Arko]

I asked Mike Bombich about Carbon Copy Cloner; he says the current rev. breaks under 10.2 but is working on getting an update released on or about the 24th.

[tthiel]

I have 10.2 on my new dual 1 gig box I bought the day they were released. So far its been a big pain in he ass. I can't get my HP printer to work nor will my PDA sync. Lots of applications crashign on me for no reason including the Help file for the I'm probably going to take it back to the Apple store on Monday. I'm not happy about paying $2500 to be a beta tester for Apple.


Originally posted by Craig R. Arko
Here's one I'm not even sure where to post, so I'll start it here and see what happens. :p

Assuming that a person buys Jaguar on or about the 24th., what kind of an upgrade plan should be pursued?

There are certain 3rd party haxies which are bound to break, the resource format will probably change so that current themes wiil break, there's a new gcc so many of the open source compilations will need new makefiles or they will break, and perhaps some of the drivers wiil not functrion as is.

So my question to y'all is, how should we collectively prepare for and conduct this upgrade to minimize the problems we might encounter?

I'm a firm believer in prevention, as opposed to troubleshooting, so I intend to back up the system and start from scratch, adding in old items individually to verify what works and what breaks. I'll start (or add to) threads in this area to report on progress, while leaving specfic troubleshooting questions to the Help areas.

Maybe it would be a good idea to start a checklist about specific things to watch out for? What say ye?

[bassi]

It's strange, I've just installed 10.2 on my TiBook and iMac and both went without a hitch. The only app that's broken is Endnote 6, I can wait for the patch. Used the new Tinkertool "beta" to pin my dock.
Using the in built firewall for now, Firewalk X will have to wait, although I've heard the new firewall is "stateful" which is cool.
I'd like to have my transparent dock back but that can wait too.

My HP at home was found and setup via print center without installing additional drivers. I had one other app crash but once I updated it to the new version it was fine. This may be just a confusing case but I imagine everyone will have similar setups but drastically different problems. Similar to my experience with WinXP. I hope not.

Which HP printer is it? Which software do you use to sync your PDA? Which PDA etc.

Before you send it back I would install 10.1.5 until this is resolved, it's not the hardware so why take it back? If it's possible I would try and get 10.1.5 from a tech at the apple store. They must understand your situation and I'm sure they'd do that before they lose $2500.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by bassi
I'd like to have my transparent dock back but that can wait too.

Unsanity will be releasing a transparent dock hack next week, along with some other fun stuff. Stay tuned.

[sjk]

Originally posted by bluehz
BROKEN
----------
Codetek Virtual Desktop
Likely fixed soon. Recent e-mail from a CodeTek Software Architect:
I am running CTVD on 10.2 (6C115) right now, and it's fine! We did have
some tweaking to do, and a little more yet to be done, but early access to
the developer builds of 10.2 through ADC is very, very sweet.

[meancode]

for those of you who use SNAX, ill let you know there is a big update for it coming :) i have been talking to the developer and doing beta testing in 10.2 for him.

i did not install over my current system, i put it on a clean firewire drive, so i cant tell ya if anything breaks or not. im just gonna wait till Retrospect is updated, as of the latest "jaguar" update, RetroRun still will not work, wich is the entire point of having my laptop backed up, having it done automaticly.

[phildobbin]

Does 10.2 not use the same gcc and compiler/dev tools as the April 2002 Dev Tools release?

AFAIK, they should be the same. Or is it the case that the beta Jaguar doesn't come with required CD (#3) or you have to reload the Dev Tools?

[Craig R. Arko]

The April DevTools were also beta status. There is supposed to be a release version CD included in the retail box.

I would not recommend using the beta Tools with the release software.

[DFrakes]

For those of you interested, I wrote an article for the October issue of Macworld on doing a "clean install" of Jaguar (officially called an "Archive and Install"). While the print issue is a month away, the article is up on the web already:

http://www.macworld.com/2002/10/features/install.html

It's edited for print, which means it's a bit shorter and less detailed than the original, but it still hits all the main points.


Note: there's one important typo that they're going to fix soon. In the third paragraph under "Library" it says

Folders that exist in the old Library but don't exist in the new one can be moved over -- such as Fonts and Internet Plug-Ins.

That should read:

Files that exist in the old Library but don't exist in the new one can be moved over -- such as Fonts and Internet Plug-Ins.

Enjoy :)

[bluehz]

This brings up a thought I have been having about folders. Over the past year I have been a compilin' fool installing all sorts of stuff - the manual way. Which means it is scattered about my system. Only recently did I succumb to the fact that it would probably be in my best interest to start installing stuff with fink - or at least in a fink like manor (e.g. outside the main drag). I have resigned myself to the fact that a clean install is the way to go in Jaguar (recent tests proved this to be true) - which means unless I want to go through and hand pick all of the stuff I installed out of my old system - I am going to have to reinstall. Also the fact that most stuff built with the old gcc/cc will need to be recompiled anyway. The point I am getting at here is - I start off with a clean system folder - install Fink, and proceed to go about reconstructing my system from before. Problem is - I prefer the manual install method of compiing - the whole Fink think just seems like it takes twice as long, I don't really know what its doing, and it takes the challenge out of solving the problems when a compile fails (hey it keeps me off the streets!). What I am getting at though - is would it be acceptable when I am manually compiling/installing to issue something like --prefix=/sw , etc during the compile process to cause the compiler to manually install into the /sw (aka Fink) dir?

Sorry to get so long winded on you guys and hope its not too horribly off topic either. Also - anyone got a good method of comparing old to new systems and makig a quick, basic checklist ow what I need to reinstall? Diff? Any others?

[mervTormel]

bluehz, there are conventions for installing 3rd party software. let's look at the filesystem hierarchy...

$ man hier | egrep -A1 'bin|local|usr'
/bin/ user utilities fundamental to both single-user and multi-
user environments
--
/sbin/ system programs and administration utilities fundamental to
both single-user and multi-user environments
--
/usr/ contains the majority of user utilities and applications

bin/ common utilities, programming tools, and applica-
tions
--
local/ executables, libraries, etc. not included by the
basic operating system
sbin/ system daemons & system utilities (executed by
users)
...


/bin /sbin /usr/bin and /usr/sbin are reserved for the vendor (apple) and anything you plop or futz with in here you could lose, or get stomped, or consider rogue.

/usr/local is property of the host or the site. it is barren in a 10.2 install.
/usr/local/bin and /usr/local/sbin are where 3rd party installs should get to - these areas are off limits to vendors. vendors should not mess with your /usr/local

fink is a different animal - i'd say, let fink install to it's default /sw for smoove and easy management.

if you acquire 3rd party package/source outside of the fink regime, install it to
/usr/local/bin or see that it gets to /usr/local/somewhere and not any of the vendor dirs (as some are wont to do). i would consider installing non-fink 3rd party tools into /sw a cat turd in the sandbox. yer management is compromised.

so, you have a rougue 3rd party install and it's maybe going to frob /bin or /sbin or
/usr/bin or /usr/sbin - if you can, direct where to install it with
--prefix=/usr/local/bin

or, before i let some installer go nuts, i use a method that lets me find the miscreants after the install

% touch ~/newer-pkgname

% # perform the install

% find / -newer ~/newer-pkgname # find files newer than ~/newer-pkgname

this will list newer files in the hierarchy and you can verify or pick out the miscreants and move them to their proper homes in /usr/local

[sao]

Sorry to come late to this thread.

Bluehz wrote: (about Fink)

I don't really know what its doing, and it takes the challenge out of solving the problems when a compile fails

As you know, if you run 'fink install packagename' , fink will unpack it, apply any needed patches, auto-configure, compile, test, and install into a .deb file which gets installed for you by dpkg.

Now, if you go into /sw/etc/fink.conf and turn on verbose output, you can watch each of these steps and get a clear idea of what Fink is doing, so that you understand it better and can do it yourself if necessary (or if you just want to tweak things manually).

And I agree with MervTormel, to install 3 party software in /sw will only complicate your life and create problems.

In another topic, very soon Fink will come out with split 10.1 and 10.2 trees. Most Fink packages have been fixed already for 10.2, but not all.

Running the December tools with 10.2 is not supported. Install the July tools. If you still want to use gcc 2 on jaguar you can use "gcc_select 2" to select it.

There will be another release of the Developer Tools by Apple in August or September.


Cheers...

[phildobbin]

The only thing ``beta'' about the April Dev Tools was the gcc compiler (v3.1). I think you'll find that the Dev Tools with 10.2 GM are exactly the same as the April Dev Tools.

So, even though you have another copy of them in the release CD, if you don't do a clean install, I'm pretty certain you can carry on using the April release if you have them installed already.

(This is what I've gleaned from the Project Builder list).

There has been some debate about their interaction with the ``new'' Finder but there has been always debate their interaction with the ``old'' Finder...

Regards,

Phil.

[bluehz]

Thx merv and sao - thats great info! I had no idea about that hier cmd.

[sao]

phildobbin,

You may probably be fine to try with the April Tools, if you don't use Fink.

Somebody asked the question at the Fink-users list:

April or July Tools?

The advice is to install the July Developer Tools. (anyhow they come with Jaguar)

Same advice was given to me by Max Horn as I posted here:

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4614

Good luck.


Cheers...

[Craig R. Arko]

A few things about this thread:

1) At one point I was thinking of producing a PDF of stuff from here, but I'm not sure that would really benefit anybody, and there isn't much of a place to host it, either. If anybody really wants such a beastie, let me know.

2) I'll probably start a new thread on Friday evening for the early adopters to put up their experiences with the install/upgrade. Again, specific troubleshooting issues should go in the Help forums.

3) Finally, as you may have noticed, in the Message Icons for creating a new post, there is a brownish X for 10.2 and a bluish X for 10.1.5 and earlier. Please consider using them on your posts so we can differentiate easily between newer system and older system issues. There should be a forum-wide sticky note about this appearing soon.

Thanks!

-- Craig


P.S. - Thanks for the article and link, Dan Frakes!

[DFrakes]

Originally posted by Craig R. Arko
P.S. - Thanks for the article and link, Dan Frakes!

No problem; I also submitted it as a hint for the archives yesterday :)

[Tony Spendel]

Craig said.........

1) At one point I was thinking of producing a PDF of stuff from here, but I'm not sure that would really benefit anybody, and there isn't much of a place to host it, either. If anybody really wants such a beastie, let me know.

Personally a lot of the talk in the thread is way too technical for me; if Craig/others would produce a pdf on 10.2 installation etc that would be very helpful.

On a specific note; some of you may remember some weeks back I had (still have) some problems with 10.1.5 and decided the best course of action was to back up my data to a FW HD; erase/partition the drive then install 10.2 in one partition and 9.2.2 in the other. Then put back my data and reinstall old applications etc.

Quite simply is this still the best course of action for me?

Tony

[Craig R. Arko]

Tony; that's pretty much the way I'd recommend doing it. I am planning to test all 3 installation methods (upgrade, archive, fresh) and see the differences.

I'll see what I can do about putting some kind of condensed version together. For the moment, you should read Dan Frakes' MacWorld article; the link is a few posts earlier than this one.

[Tony Spendel]

OK Craig thanks for that.

Tony

[sao]

Craig,

I collected some info about problems users are having with 10.2:


After delayed uptime folders will no longer highlight.

ARD does not work

Playing movies over a network hard crashes Jaguar.

Lightwave 7 won't work

Can't get Kerberos Login Authenticator to work

Norton Antivirus 8.0.2 fails to load at startup

On reboot occasionally the finder will get in a crashing loop on reboot until you reboot again.

The first install had problems of the volume buttons would go up and down but the volume wouldn't. (Cured by a reboot)


Cheers...

[Craig R. Arko]

Originally posted by sao
Craig,

I collected some info about problems users are having with 10.2:

Playing movies over a network hard crashes Jaguar.

Cheers...


Do you mean DVD's mounted on a remote system, or are you talking about QuickTime .mov files here?

And thanks for the list.

I see Unsanity (http://www.unsanity.com/) has pretty much completed upgrading their stuff for 10.2.

[sao]

Craig,

Sorry, I can't find the site where I read about Playing movies over a network. Will keep searching and will let you know.

Other problems:

WaveLAN PCMCIA card -
Mac OS X 10.2 breaks the open source WaveLAN driver

MacOS X 10.2 Causes VectorWorks to Fail -
Apple has included changes in this release which cause VectorWorks 9.5.2 to fail to function properly. Known failures under MacOS X 10.2 include interactive screen drawing leaving unintended pixels behind, instability during printing, and inability to export correct image files.

ViaVoice -
IBM has confirmed that ViaVoice will not function with OS X 10.2. No patch is currently available, but expect an update "soon."

Two solutions:

Audion 3.0.2 adds support for Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar)

About ARD not working:

There should be an update coming from Apple very soon. If you don't want to wait, there is actually a very simple fix for the problems experienced with Jaguar. Open the terminal while logged in as an Admin user, and paste in this text:
sudo ln -s
/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/HIServices.framework
This will allow ARD to run normally on 10.2 without any problems. Make sure that you have installed all of ARD's components, rather than just copied over the application, or the required system components may not be in place if you just made a Clean Install.


Cheers...

[Craig R. Arko]

OK, thanks. I saw a bunch of fink packages in the 10.2 area were put into cvs last night. What's the state of XDarwin?

By the way, if anyone is confused ARD = Apple Remote Desktop. :)

Also, Sonnet has released 10.2 compatible enablers for their accelerator cards.

[sao]

Craig,

There are already many packages that build on Jaguar, but others still don't.

I'm getting Jaguar tomorrow and will begin testing Fink packages on one of my machines non-stop.

One package that need testing urgently (for those who have Jaguar already installed or not) is the following:
(as posted at the Fink-lists by Benjamin Reed)
Subject: Please test: xfree86-base/xfree86-rootless in unstable, XFree86 CVS

I've checked in an updated XFree86 package that a number of us on #fink have
been working on for the last couple of weeks. While it should be functionally
the same, a lot of things have changed under the hood:

* builds properly on Jaguar, and enables code that only works under Jaguar
(SHM being the most notable)

* the xfree86 build is now splitoffized, so to get xfree86-base and
xfree86-rootless, you only need to build once (yay!)

* other bugfixes from the XFree86 team's 4.2.0 stable code branch have been
incorporated into the fink patch (this includes a couple of the OpenGL
examples that now build, as well as OpenGL documentation)

There are plans for putting together a new binary dist very soon, so it would
be very much appreciated if those of you willing to test out possibly unstable
things would try out the new xfree86 packages and let us know if you run into
any problems, so we can put them in stable if they're ready.

Also, Torrey Lyons (the primary XDarwin developer) is looking for feedback on
XFree86 CVS, which will soon become the XFree86 4.3.0 release. If you're
interested in helping out, I've put together a Fink package of an XFree86
snapshot as of today, for the very brave. =)

If you would like to try it out, please contact me and I'll point you to the
info and patch.
I already installed the xfree86-base and rootless package, to check if it was backward compatible and it installed without any fuss on my system:

i----xfree86-base-------------4.2.0-11----------XFree86 libraries, utilities, clients and data.
i----xfree86-rootless-------------4.2.0-11-----------XFree86 libraries, utilities, clients and data.

Will keep you updated.


Cheers..

[macmath]

Fed-Ex tried to deliver OS X 10.2 today. I was at work and my wife was out of the house with our 2 and 4 year old, so they'll try to deliver it again on Monday. I had my heart set on it so much that I nearly got in the car to try to find the delivery truck. :(

My wife is not following all this and had forgotten all about the delivery. We're still married as of dinnertime, so I guess I'm about over the trauma of it all. ;)