Debugging Applications That Won't Boot

[bholm]

I am trying to launch PageMaker 7 on my wife's login.
Once Classic has booted (OS 9.2) nothing happens with PageMaker.
I click it again to launch it, but the PageMaker icon in the dock bounces once or twice then nothing!

No error msgs, no nothing! How does Apple expect this to be useful behavior??? How is the average user supposed to determine what the problem is???

Is there a log file that logs what's going on? Where?

Any ideas here? I already set the permissions for PageMaker 7 folder to be more open. What's crazy is that under my login, it works ok and launches.
I had installed it under my login in Classic. But after I ran BatchMod and set the permissions, it worked on her login. Now it's not working again. The only thing I can recall changing was the Conflict Catcher set. So I changed it back and now it works in mine but not her login.

But again, the real question is, what debugging tools is there in Classic/OSX when an application doesn't open?

[mervTormel]

don't blame apple.

copious error messages are encouraged, but can only be implemented by the developer, and pagemaker has a sordid history.

as for your particular troubleshooting problems, here's something that is handy to know:

if root can run it, or another user can run it, and nothing else has changed, it's usually an ownership/permissions issue.

[hschickel]

I have not installed Pagemaker 7 so what I'm going to say is a guess but it will be an educated (slightly) version.

I believe merv is correct and this is a permissions issue. The permissions problem that you are facing is in the Classic System folder. Your wife probably does not have the proper permissions to use important items that Pagemaker installed.

You have a couple of options at this point.

1. The brute force method would be to BatChmod your Classic System Folder (as you did to the Pagemaker app) to give your wife permission to use the items. I have used this method in the past without issues - but I am a bit wary of brute force permissions solutions of late (thanks again to mervTormel.)

2. The precision method requires you to pay attention to installations to your System Folder (and I highly recommend doing this) so that you know what Pagemaker installed. If you don't track your System Folder you should start. How is beyond the scope of this quick jot - but running Installer Observer (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=2170&db=mac) will get you 90% of the way there. Run Installer Observer, reinstall Pagemaker, and then run Installer Observer again. This will give you a list of the items that Pagemaker modified/installed in your System Folder. For newer Adobe apps you'll get a folder inside the Adobe Folder in Application Support, and a file or folder in Preferences. If 7 is like Pagemaker 6.5 you'll also end up with some items in Extensions for distilling and printing, some fonts in Fonts, and possibly a Control Panel. Your wife will need permissions to use all of these items.

***By the way - I install Classic applications while booted from 9 and I've never had this type of problem.

Hugh

[mervTormel]

hugh makes a very good point.

install OS9 applications in OS9, as these installers are probably completely unaware of OSX or classic. and owner/permissions are assigned from the user running the installer.

bholm, i'd like to see the owner/permission profile from some of your pagemaker files in the system folder and the pagemaker app folder.

i suspect they are go=r, but no w, and the w is the kicker.

when pagemaker fires up, it'll want to write something somewheres and it dies a horrible, silent death because the sloppy programmers made assumptions about being able to write, wholesale, anywheres.

another code writing lesson: check your return statuses and assume nothing.

[hschickel]

merv maker a good point. The preferences file/folder for Pagemaker (found in the Preferences folder inside the Classic System Folder) will have to be writeable. Pagemakers Application Support folder may have to be writable as well.

Hugh

[bholm]

Why would the Classic system Preferences folder NOT be accessible for writes? Installing a new app, even while running Classic, would/should not change a native 9.2 folder permission setting, right?

Now as for individual files within, I can see them getting locked up. But here again, why did Apple make it so that installing in Classic sets permissions that break applications that ran fine in 9.2 native? When installing in Classic, it should set all permissions wide open on whatever it installs, because that's the way it used to do things. Yes it would make Classic system folder more insecure but hey, how is it different in 9.2 native boot?

Merv, you wanted to know my permissions profile, how do I get that?

I guess the lesson here is, install all non-OSX apps booted in 9.2.

If I reinstall PageMaker7 in 9.2, will it over-write and reset the proper permissions on all PM7 necessary files?

[mervTormel]

bholm,

--
If I reinstall PageMaker7 in 9.2, will it over-write and reset the proper permissions on all PM7 necessary files?
--

yep. should. unless the installer see the files there and decides not to overwrite them. *sigh*

as an excersise, create a new folder on your OS9 partition (command-shift-N).

examine it in terminal, thusly:

% ll /Volumes/OS9/foo/ -d
drwxr-xr-x 2 me wheel 24 Jan 29 09:09 /Volumes/OS9/foo//

this is a way to examine the permissions profile of filesystem objects.

see, it has permissions, owner and group.

in fact, it has the permissions, owner and group of the parent folder (this is a BSD behavior, i believe, different in other flavors of *nix), in this case, my OS9 volume, which i have deliberately set to what i believe is secure from other users write access. the group is the root group, and the permission is no write for group or other (world).

caveat: note that i have purposely set my owners/perms like this, YMMV. that is, i chown'd me:wheel and chmod'd u=rwx,go=rx all my /Volumes/* ; please investigate security thoroughly before applying these wholesale changes.


i want granularity of access control. i want to be able to explicitely grant or deny access to volumes, folders, and files.

when an OS9 app is installed in classic, this can cause problems if the parent folders are not set with write access, which having set to wholesale write access is a security problem.

i realize that this can be overly confusing. we can address more specific security problems after you've re-installed pagemaker. you prolly want to clean most traces of it first, but i don't know that for sure.

if you are not interested in security (gasp!) you could try to set the "ignore privs on this volume" in the get-info window of the target volume.

let us know.

[daveguy]

If you are using 10.2 (at least this is what I've found, I haven't had a chance to check it against 10.3 or 10.4), the permissions you have to change are on the folder called "Temporary Items" in the root directory. Yes, it is hidden, so you'll have to change permissions from the terminal. Here is what you need to do. Log into your account (which is the Administrator account), open the Terminal, and type:

cd /

(This changes the working directory to the root (main) directory)

sudo chmod 777 "Temporary Items"

Type this with the quotes for it to work. It will ask you for your password, and should send you back to the prompt. Then log out, log in as your wife, and try PageMaker.

Yes, I know, it's a kludge, but if it works......