Powerbook with no power?

[apathy]

Hopefully this is the right forum.

I have a 17" powerbook with OSX 10.2 (I believe). It is pretty much only used to browse the internet. It is approximately 2 years old.

A few days ago, I came back to use it and got a kernel panic. I held the power button down to shut it off, and turned it back on.

I hear the startup noise, but the screen itself is dead. The power button light is dead. The light that is normally glowing on the latch mechanism (that opens the powerbook when it's closed) is also dead.

The caps lock button lights up when pressed, though.

I removed and replaced the battery shortly after the incident, and turned it on. The screen worked fine and the computer started up as normal (I did not think to check the power button light or the latch light at this point). After it came up, I moved the pointer to the Disk Utility and clicked, which resulted in the computer locking up (color wheel spinning, system unresponsive). I left it in this state, only to return and find the screen once again dead.

Any ideas here? Is this something that I will have to take in for repairs?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[TrumpetPower!]

First, reset the PRAM and the Power Manager. Then, boot from the CD that came with the computer holding whatever keys you need to get to the Apple Hardware Test program. If that doesn't find any problems, reboot with the same CD to the installer, from which you should be able to get to the Disk Utility on that CD. If it finds problems it can't repair, try to erase the hard drive (AFTER taking suitable steps to recover files you care about!) and re-install the OS. If you've still got problems at that point...yeah, it's time to either be glad you've got AppleCare or wish you had gotten it.

Cheers,

b&

[apathy]

Thanks, but I'm not sure if that is going to work.

I have already tried to reset the PRAM, but the computer does not actually reset as it usually does. I hold down the appropriate keys and it seems to ignore it.

I tried both ways of resetting the power manager apple listed on their website...one involved holding down ctrl+shift+command or some such and hitting the power button and letting it sit for 5 seconds, then turning the computer on, and removed the battery and held the power button down for 5 seconds.

Both had no effect.

As I can't boot the machine up from a CD (the apple logo does not even show up), I can't try the other option either. I actually have a Family Guy DVD in the machine right now, and cannot eject it when the computer is "on."

Is this a logic board failure??

[trevor]

(AFTER taking suitable steps to recover files you care about!)

Sometimes you can recover files from a computer that is having this type of issue by putting it into FireWire Target Disk Mode and mounting it's hard drive on another computer.

Or if that doesn't work, you can physically remove the hard drive and put it into an external drive case.

Trevor

[TrumpetPower!]

Thanks, but I'm not sure if that is going to work.

I have already tried to reset the PRAM, but the computer does not actually reset as it usually does. I hold down the appropriate keys and it seems to ignore it.

I tried both ways of resetting the power manager apple listed on their website...one involved holding down ctrl+shift+command or some such and hitting the power button and letting it sit for 5 seconds, then turning the computer on, and removed the battery and held the power button down for 5 seconds.

Both had no effect.

As I can't boot the machine up from a CD (the apple logo does not even show up), I can't try the other option either. I actually have a Family Guy DVD in the machine right now, and cannot eject it when the computer is "on."

Is this a logic board failure??

It could be a problem with the logic board...but have you actually tried removing all the various drives, as I suggested? And pulling the motherboard battery for a half-hour to reset the PRAM?

The former is going to be your best diagnostic bet. If you can't force the computer to a flashing question mark, even with all drives removed, you're probably hosed. Especially if the half-hour without the battery (and without the power cord) doesn't also help.

But if you do get a flashing question mark at that point, you can start troubleshooting to figure out just where the problem lies. Can you boot from a floppy, with only the floppy drive physically attached? Then the computer can boot just fine, and oh-by-the-way, your floppy drive is okay. Can you then boot from a CD? Well, then, your CD drive is okay. Can you boot from a CD, but not if one of the PCI cards is plugged in? Hey, there's your problem!

Sometimes you can recover files from a computer that is having this type of issue by putting it into FireWire Target Disk Mode and mounting it's hard drive on another computer.

Re-read apathy's initial post. We really are talking about a true Frankenmac, here. The computer is a decade old, well before the days of USB--let alone FireWire. Everything was SCSI. If I remember right, it shipped with System 7.5.something-or-other. It's a second-generation PowerMac, made right about the time that Apple had stopped selling 680x0-based systems (except for PowerBooks?).

Upgrading this machine with a G4 and running Tiger on it would be akin to me putting a turbocharged direct-injection diesel engine into my '68 VW Westfalia and then running it on straight vegetable oil. Sure, it can be done...but it ain't for the faint o' heart....

I gotta admit, though, it sure would be cool to see.

Cheers,

b&

[apathy]

It could be a problem with the logic board...but have you actually tried removing all the various drives, as I suggested? And pulling the motherboard battery for a half-hour to reset the PRAM?


I am not at the machine at the moment, I'm at work, but I will try what you have said when I get home.

What do you mean by removing the various drives? Pulling the internal hard drive?

I've always done PRAM resets on macs by holding command+option+P+R on startup and waiting for it to reset itself 4 times, is that not what I should do?


Re-read apathy's initial post. We really are talking about a true Frankenmac, here. The computer is a decade old, well before the days of USB--let alone FireWire.

Not sure where you got this from, the machine is approximately 2 years old, with firewire and USB ports on it, as well as a super drive.

[hayne]

Re-read apathy's initial post. We really are talking about a true Frankenmac, here.

TrumpetPower:
I think you got some wires crossed and replied to the wrong thread.

[TrumpetPower!]

Not sure where you got this from, the machine is approximately 2 years old, with firewire and USB ports on it, as well as a super drive.

Ah...my bad. I was getting two threads mixed up in my mind. You probably want to disregard most of what I wrote in that last note....

Is the DVD stuck in the computer the reason you can't boot from a CD? If so, have you tried holding down the mouse button while turning the computer on? (Try F12, or the eject button if it has one of those.) If the drive has a hole for manually ejecting discs, have you tried that?

If you can't get the disc to eject, or if you can't get the computer to boot from a known-good bootable CD / DVD, then it's time to get somebody at Apple (etc.) to put it on the test bench. Either would quite strongly hint at a hardware problem, with the only other option being that you're not properly following instructions on how to eject the disc or how to boot from it, or that your disc is bad.

Cheers,

b&

[apathy]

Is the DVD stuck in the computer the reason you can't boot from a CD? If so, have you tried holding down the mouse button while turning the computer on? (Try F12, or the eject button if it has one of those.) If the drive has a hole for manually ejecting discs, have you tried that?

If you can't get the disc to eject, or if you can't get the computer to boot from a known-good bootable CD / DVD, then it's time to get somebody at Apple (etc.) to put it on the test bench. Either would quite strongly hint at a hardware problem, with the only other option being that you're not properly following instructions on how to eject the disc or how to boot from it, or that your disc is bad.


The reason I can't boot from a CD is that the screen is not functioning. I don't even see the white apple splash screen.

But, now another caveat. I left the computer "on" today, but unplugged the power cord to drain the battery completely while I was at work.

When I returned, I put the power cord in, and held the eject button while turning on the computer. The DVD ejected and the display worked again. The power button light and the latch light still were not lit up.

The computer turned on as normal, all my icons displayed fine on the desktop. I put in my OSX CD, which mounted and displayed the icon on the desktop, and went to the blue apple and selected restart (was going to run a hardware check).

I hold C, Computer restarts, but the display is not functioning now once again! I turn the computer off, then turn it on with the eject button held in once again, but the CD does not eject this time....display is still hosed.

Lovely twists to the story! Perhaps this is some kind of power failure instead??? I once again have the power cord out in hopes that I can start it up again and run a hardware check now that the OSX CD is in the drive.

[giskard22]

I would try the PMU reset one last time. For your PowerBook, the proper procedure is:
1. If the computer is on, turn it off. (Verify this by checking Caps Lock. If it's on, disconnect the AC adapter and remove the battery until Caps Lock goes off.)
2. Reset the power manager by simultaneously pressing and then releasing Shift-Control-Option-Power on the keyboard. Do not press the fn (Function) key while using this combination of keystrokes.
3. Wait 5 seconds.
4. Press the Power button to restart the computer.

If you have the AC adapter plugged in when you do this, you'll get some visual feedback. The LED should be orange (charging the battery) before you press the keys. When you press them, if you've done it properly, the LED should go back to green for a few seconds.

Could there be a physical cause? Sometimes the connections are bad and a screen won't work when the hinge is in a certain position.

Anyway, if the PMU reset doesn't get the screen working again, it's probably time to call Apple. They'll charge you $50 for the call, but if you end up paying for a repair they should refund that charge. The repair itself will likely cost about $325, assuming you haven't dropped the PowerBook or spilled liquid in it.

[gsoftcomputes]

to get the disk out of the computer, press and hold the trackpad button or the space bar...not sure which one but i have heard that holding one of those will eject the cd from the drive

hope this works...not sure about it

alex

[TrumpetPower!]

I'll second giskard22's advice, but add on to it a little bit.

First, before dishing out some cash, it's worth seeing if you can get the computer to work with an external display. And, if so, see if it works enough for you to run the Apple Hardware Test on that DVD that came with the computer. If it does give the computer a clean bill of health, and assuming that your money is worth more to you than your time, then it'd be worthwhile making (and testing!) a backup, erasing the hard drive, installing the OS, and seeing if you have any troubles with just what Apple ships installed and nothing else. I wouldn't hold out much hope...but you'll need that backup if you give the computer to somebody to fiddle with and this'll eliminate every last possibility that the problem could be in software somewhere.

Also, if you've got an Apple Store in town, you're probably better off bringing it to the Genius Bar there rather than calling it in. For one, there's the chance that it could be something really trivial that the gal behind the counter fixes in ten seconds and doesn't bother charging you for. For another, if it does have to go back to Apple, you don't have to worry about packing it up, etc.--they'll take care of all that for you. Plus, you get to drool over all the neat toys while waiting for your spot at the Bar....

Cheers,

b&

[apathy]

After many hours of tests, and head-beating, I finally removed the extra memory that I installed in the system and it worked fine. Not sure why the extra memory was causing these kinds of errors, especially since it has been in the system for a while, but it is working now! Thanks for the help!