Quicktime and AIFF?

Doug Lassiter · 11-06-2009, 06:14 PM

I'd like to use Quicktime to do simple edits of audio files that need to be written as audio CD's. That would mean exporting as AIFF. OK, so QT7.6.4 offers me an opportunity to export as AIFF. Sounds fine. But I select AIFF and do it, and what comes out is AIFC (which is not audio CD compatible - at least not in my CD player!) Huh?? What's going on? How do I get AIFF out of QT? Or, is there another audio CD compatible format that QT can export?

OK, so I can pipe the result through iTunes, and burn an audio CD that way, but I can't understand why QT won't do what it says it's supposed to do.

trevor · 11-06-2009, 06:42 PM

AIFF is never "audio CD compatible". To say that another way, an audio CD is not AIFF files on a data CD, and burning AIFF files onto a data CD does not give you something that can be played in a non-computer CD player.

You need a program that can burn a Redbook CD (technically an Orangebook CD, but that's a whole other story). iTunes is one, Toast is another.

I don't know why Quicktime is outputting AIFC files, or even what AIFC files are, but you need more than AIFF files to make a CD that plays in your non-computer CD player.

Trevor

AHunter3 · 11-06-2009, 06:59 PM

Well, in all fairness, the old versions of Toast (e.g., Adaptec Toast 3.5) would accept AIFF files as native file source for audio CDs. If you handed it MP3 files instead, it would have to convert them first (and you had to wait while it did so).

And lots of audio programs that could rip a track from CD would save as AIFF.

What's on a CD may not be AIFF files as understood by our computer's file structure, but the info that's in an AIFF is apparently pretty much identical to what a CD track actually is.

Doug Lassiter · 11-06-2009, 06:59 PM

OK, thanks much. I'm a bit perplexed because when I look at audio CD's, they're filled with AIFF files. In fact, when I burn a CD audio disk with iTunes, what's on it is in AIFF format. So I just figured that the AIFF format was what I needed.

I gather from what you say that, indeed, QT doesn't offer any audio CD export formats.

hayne · 11-06-2009, 07:43 PM

Doug:
I don't know much about this topic, but it seems that you are getting confused between two things:
- the data format for a file
- the type of filesystem where that file is

In order for a CD to be playable on a garden-variety CD player, it needs to have its filesystem be of the type expected for audio CDs (as trevor has said).

macosnoob · 11-06-2009, 07:48 PM

You need to read through all the follow-ups and next-in-thread responses to get to the bottom of this AIFF/AIFC issue:

http://lists.apple.com/archives/core.../msg00358.html

Perhaps the clearest (and one can only hope reasonably reliable) explanation comes in the Wikipedia entry cited in the first message in the above discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiff (especially the section on "AIFF on Mac OS X," which I won't attempt to summarize).

But to answer Doug's last question, no, QT doesn't provide an "audio CD export format." It's not simply a matter of the encoding of data for a single track. It's a matter of the format of the entire audio CD--as trevor and hayne say.

Doug Lassiter · 11-06-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayne


	Doug: I don't know much about this topic, but it seems that you are getting confused between two things: - the data format for a file - the type of filesystem where that file is In order for a CD to be playable on a garden-variety CD player, it needs to have its filesystem be of the type expected for audio CDs (as trevor has said).

Yes, I think that's the root of my confusion. Very interesting. I've never seen a clear explanation of this. I accept that AIFF and AIFC are different formats (though it's still perplexing why QT can't do what it says it's doing), but the point that both file format and filesystem are important seems to be the key.

Many years ago, I did use an OS9 version of Toast, but $80 for the current version seems a bit pricey for the simple task I want to do. I guess I should be satisfied with iTunes, though I'm looking at SimplyBurns as a nice shareware option.

Many thanks to everyone!

benwiggy · 11-07-2009, 05:14 AM

Burn is a free CD-DVD burner that will create audio CD disks.
http://burn-osx.sourceforge.net/Pages/English/home.html

trevor · 11-07-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHunter3


	Well, in all fairness, the old versions of Toast (e.g., Adaptec Toast 3.5) would accept AIFF files as native file source for audio CDs. If you handed it MP3 files instead, it would have to convert them first (and you had to wait while it did so). And lots of audio programs that could rip a track from CD would save as AIFF. What's on a CD may not be AIFF files as understood by our computer's file structure, but the info that's in an AIFF is apparently pretty much identical to what a CD track actually is.

Yes, that's all pretty much true. AIFF files are a small wrapper (containing some information such as bitrate and sample rate) around PCM (pulse code modulated) digital audio. If the PCM audio is 16 bit and has a sample rate of 44100 Hz, then there is no conversion between the PCM data used in AIFF files and that used on a Redbook CD or an Orangebook CD-R. (Of course, if the AIFF file is something other than 16 bit, 44.1 KHz, then the data would need to be converted to match the CD specs.) The only conversion is stripping the AIFF wrapper, and writing the necessary Red/Orangebook coding on the disc.

But the data is not in question here. Doug Lassiter was trying to write AIFF data files to a data CD-R and hoping it to be played by a CD Audio player. This will not work, as AIFF files != Redbook CD.

Trevor

trevor · 11-07-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Lassiter


	OK, thanks much. I'm a bit perplexed because when I look at audio CD's, they're filled with AIFF files. In fact, when I burn a CD audio disk with iTunes, what's on it is in AIFF format. So I just figured that the AIFF format was what I needed.

You're correct that it is made to look that way. If you put an audio CD into your computer, the Mac OS (back many versions, which is why I don't specify just Mac OS X) helpfully makes the tracks look like 16 bit, 44.1 KHz AIFF files. They're not, but they're much more useful to us if they look like they are. And if you drag them out of the audio CD, they become actual AIFF files, too! This is just another one of the many cool features of the Mac operating system. Since it's such a trivial conversion, it's easy for the operating system to do it, just create a 16 bit, 44.1KHz wrapper around the existing PCM data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Lassiter


	I gather from what you say that, indeed, QT doesn't offer any audio CD export formats.

Not that I know of.

Trevor

blubbernaut · 11-07-2009, 07:05 PM

You could use the free Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac to do any edits you want.

Export from there to any format (but if you don't want to lose quality, export as AIFF or WAV).

Drag those files into Burn, checking Audio-CD under the Audio tab. Boom. Done.

FlunkedFlank · 11-11-2009, 02:14 AM

For the record, AIFC files are just compressed AIFF files. AIFF files are completely uncompressed, not even losslessly compressed. I think AIFC can have a few different types of compression, usually lossless.

Having AIFC files means much small data, but complicates the near-mirror-image nature of AIFF files and raw CD data as previously discussed.

11-06-2009, 06:14 PM	#1
Doug Lassiter Triple-A Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Burnett, Texas Posts: 139	Quicktime and AIFF? I'd like to use Quicktime to do simple edits of audio files that need to be written as audio CD's. That would mean exporting as AIFF. OK, so QT7.6.4 offers me an opportunity to export as AIFF. Sounds fine. But I select AIFF and do it, and what comes out is AIFC (which is not audio CD compatible - at least not in my CD player!) Huh?? What's going on? How do I get AIFF out of QT? Or, is there another audio CD compatible format that QT can export? OK, so I can pipe the result through iTunes, and burn an audio CD that way, but I can't understand why QT won't do what it says it's supposed to do.

11-06-2009, 06:42 PM	#2
trevor Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boulder, CO USA Posts: 16,715	AIFF is never "audio CD compatible". To say that another way, an audio CD is not AIFF files on a data CD, and burning AIFF files onto a data CD does not give you something that can be played in a non-computer CD player. You need a program that can burn a Redbook CD (technically an Orangebook CD, but that's a whole other story). iTunes is one, Toast is another. I don't know why Quicktime is outputting AIFC files, or even what AIFC files are, but you need more than AIFF files to make a CD that plays in your non-computer CD player. Trevor __________________ Eight steps to Internet unpopularity - Chris Breen.

11-06-2009, 07:43 PM	#5
hayne Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 29,276	Doug: I don't know much about this topic, but it seems that you are getting confused between two things: - the data format for a file - the type of filesystem where that file is In order for a CD to be playable on a garden-variety CD player, it needs to have its filesystem be of the type expected for audio CDs (as trevor has said). __________________ hayne.net/macosx.html

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11-06-2009, 06:59 PM	#3
AHunter3 Hall of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 2,798	Well, in all fairness, the old versions of Toast (e.g., Adaptec Toast 3.5) would accept AIFF files as native file source for audio CDs. If you handed it MP3 files instead, it would have to convert them first (and you had to wait while it did so). And lots of audio programs that could rip a track from CD would save as AIFF. What's on a CD may not be AIFF files as understood by our computer's file structure, but the info that's in an AIFF is apparently pretty much identical to what a CD track actually is.

11-06-2009, 07:48 PM	#6
macosnoob MVP Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,147	You need to read through all the follow-ups and next-in-thread responses to get to the bottom of this AIFF/AIFC issue: http://lists.apple.com/archives/core.../msg00358.html Perhaps the clearest (and one can only hope reasonably reliable) explanation comes in the Wikipedia entry cited in the first message in the above discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiff (especially the section on "AIFF on Mac OS X," which I won't attempt to summarize). But to answer Doug's last question, no, QT doesn't provide an "audio CD export format." It's not simply a matter of the encoding of data for a single track. It's a matter of the format of the entire audio CD--as trevor and hayne say.

11-07-2009, 05:14 AM	#8
benwiggy MVP Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,047	Burn is a free CD-DVD burner that will create audio CD disks. http://burn-osx.sourceforge.net/Pages/English/home.html

11-07-2009, 07:05 PM	#11
blubbernaut MVP Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,701	You could use the free Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac to do any edits you want. Export from there to any format (but if you don't want to lose quality, export as AIFF or WAV). Drag those files into Burn, checking Audio-CD under the Audio tab. Boom. Done.

11-11-2009, 02:14 AM	#12
FlunkedFlank Prospect Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2	For the record, AIFC files are just compressed AIFF files. AIFF files are completely uncompressed, not even losslessly compressed. I think AIFC can have a few different types of compression, usually lossless. Having AIFC files means much small data, but complicates the near-mirror-image nature of AIFF files and raw CD data as previously discussed.