DVD region code hack, maybe?

[helloworld]

I just noticed a rather strange thing.

Since I got my new powerbook some months ago I've been using VLC to play DVD's. I never accepted the region code the DVD player is suggesting on the first launch but just quit it and set up VLC as a default player. The almighty VLC let's you play DVDs and doesn't care about any codes designed by some fascist capitalists to limit our freedom and to get more money out of us.

Anyway, last night I got a rental DVD that VLC couldn't play so I launched DVD player and was waiting for the dialog asking for the region code but it didn't ask for anything, it just started playing the DVD normally. Same thing with another rental DVD.

So, I'm not sure what has happened. I heard that I would normally have to use a firmware crack or something to bypass the region code but it looks like I just might have done it accidentally. I've only tried region 1 DVDs so far but since my system is not asking for any code I guess I'm sorted unless the region code was set eventhough I quit DVD player straight away when the region code dialog appeared.

Does anyone else have similar experinces, does anyone know if there is a way to check the region code on my system?

[hitsuzen]

Quote: Originally Posted by helloworld So, I'm not sure what has happened. I heard that I would normally have to use a firmware crack or something to bypass the region code but it looks like I just might have done it accidentally.

Since panther, the dvd player has stopped asking me to set my region code.
So I'm guessing that whatever region code dvd you first pop in the player will be set as the default.

Most of my dvd's are region 1 with some being region free discs, but one day I tried to play a friends region 2 dvd and I get that window asking me if I want to switch dvd regions and that I can only do it x number of times.

[g4cube]

Its true that what ever region is set on the drive is the default and happens on the first dvd that is played. If you swap regions then the player will ask to change it to a maximum of 5 changes then its stuck there. To get around this you need to flash the drive rpc-1 then use a app called REGION X that XVI made to be able to change the region as much as you like. For more info try h**p://forum.rpc1.org/

[CAlvarez]

Anyone know how these programs handle PAL format on the Mac? I'm thinking about downloading a couple of DVDs in PAL, but don't want to waste my time if I'm going to have to screw around with re-writing the info file just to get offset audio in the end.

[g4cube]

PAL is what we have in Australia and its just fine.

[helloworld]

Quote: Originally Posted by g4cube If you swap regions then the player will ask to change it to a maximum of 5 changes then its stuck there. To get around this you need to flash the drive rpc-1 then use a app called REGION X that XVI made to be able to change the region as much as you like. For more info try h**p://forum.rpc1.org/

There's no need to switch regions if you use VLC as a secondary DVD player.
http://www.videolan.org/ On my old G4 running 10.3 the region code was set to European but I had no problem watching American DVDs with VLC media player. Oh, and PAL and NTSC both work just fine.

[Phil St. Romain]

Quote: Originally Posted by helloworld . . .The almighty VLC let's you play DVDs and doesn't care about any codes designed by some fascist capitalists to limit our freedom and to get more money out of us.

This comment was totally unnecessary to the point of the post. Lots of people produce intellectual property (books, videos, software) for sale and certainly aren't fascists for doing so.

[mnewman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil St. Romain This comment was totally unnecessary to the point of the post. Lots of people produce intellectual property (books, videos, software) for sale and certainly aren't fascists for doing so.

As someone who once produced intellectual property for a living, I tend to agree. However, as someone who frequently travels between regions, I find the DVD region codes to be excessive protection. Granted, VLC is a decent solution for the Mac, but I find it more than annoying that I can't play DVD's I buy in Thailand (the legal ones!) on the DVD player I bought here on Saipan.

But, since this is not the Coat Room, I'll stop the rant here....

[Phil St. Romain]

Oh, a related tangential discussion is actually welcomed from time to time.

I understand your point, mnewman, but I wonder if there's a parallel with computer software. If I buy MS Office for Mac and it runs on a Mac and then I try to use it on a PC but it doesn't run, isn't that similar to some DVDs running on some players but not others? Is one's freedom somehow being "limited" by this, as the opening post suggests? Maybe my analogy doesn't quite work, here; what do you think?

[mnewman]

You know, I tried to think of some parallels, but couldn't come up with any. I think DVD's are the only product where geographic discrimination is purposely built in. Sure, my NTSC VHS tape won't work in Europe. But, that's a matter of standards, not a deliberate attempt to keep me from buying a product in one part of the world to use in another.

I can buy a cheap CD in Shanghai and play it in any old CD player. I can buy a cheap beer in Jakarta and drink it in LA. I can buy an OS/X disc in Akihabara and use it on my Mac in Saipan....

I'd love to know about other examples of built-in geographic limitations.

Anyone?

[hayne]

According to this Wikipedia article, the practice of"regional lockout" started in the video game industry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout

[mnewman]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne According to this Wikipedia article, the practice of"regional lockout" started in the video game industry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout

Very interesting. I was never a gamer, so never ran into this.

I was just out shopping a lunch time and noticed that one of our Chinese retailers now has region-free DVD players for sale. I wonder if this is a trend?

[hitsuzen]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil St. Romain Is one's freedom somehow being "limited" by this, as the opening post suggests? Maybe my analogy doesn't quite work, here; what do you think?

Maybe. All I know is that it's quite inconvenient - I have a
multi-region dvd player and a region 1 player just in case
some region 1 dvd's refuse to play in the multi-region one.

Right now I live in a "region 3" area, but some titles that are
available in region 1 and 2 months ago are still not available
in region 3 because no one in that region has licenced it yet.

Thank god for the internet, I get a lot of dvd's from the US and
Japanese Amazon.com stores but I have to deal with unfavourable
exchange rates, shipping cost and shipping time. so a single dvd
takes a huge chunk out of my wallet.

[Phil St. Romain]

I was thinking of computer hardware-software compatability as an analogy, here. No one really expects that MS Office for Mac should also work on Windows; we've just accepted that, and yet the case could be made that in purchasing Office for good money, I should receive installation disks for all platforms it will run on. A few programs I've purchased through the years provided this convenience, and I was both surprised and delighted about that. It's led me to question the ethics of this whole software-hardware compatability issue and it seems there are analogies, here, with audio-video standards, though maybe only remotely so.

Whatever the case, it seems that there are effective work-arounds for the DVD compatability situation and that's working for some people.

[helloworld]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil St. Romain This comment was totally unnecessary to the point of the post. Lots of people produce intellectual property (books, videos, software) for sale and certainly aren't fascists for doing so.

Hmm, maybe unecessary to the point but I think it is a justified statement. I think one can say that limiting people's access to information is a fascistic act and that is exactly what the region codes are doing.

Besides I think that in the information age the whole logic of this idea of a regional code as a safety-measure against piracy is just stupid. Assuming that you travel a lot and want to watch DVDs on your laptop...because of the region coded DVDs it is more convenient to go for a pirate copy since they are not coded.
So in their fight against piracy the industry has created a reason to support piracy.

I produce intellectual property also but I don't think that techniques like this are doing us any good. The middlemen are getting fatter though.

[Phil St. Romain]

That's a little too loose an understanding of fascism for me, helloworld, as there are many instances when information ought not be made public (confidential records of clients, certain intelligence reports, and so forth). Besides, in this example, no one's access to information is really being limited, as you can purchase the disks and hardware needed. I do see your point about the standards issue tempting people to piracy, but I don't agree that this is justified. Again, using MS Office as an example, I could say that since I bought a copy for my Mac, MS also owes me a Windows version and so I'm justified in downloading a copy under a file-sharing scheme, or just loading another person's copy onto my computer.

As for middle-men . . . again, I don't see the restrictions on freedom. I'm the author of numerous books, and the publishers make more money on them than I do. Is that fair? Well, I could try to publish and market them myself, eliminating the middle-man, but I wouldn't sell as many and wouldn't even make as much money. This is the case in a wide-range of enterprises.

[mnewman]

I don't think the MS Office analogy really flies. On the one hand you have software that has been separately developed to run on very diffferent hardware platforms. M$ is justified in selling the products separately as a way to recoup development costs.

On the other hand you have (with DVD's) identical products that have been deliberately crippled to run on only a subset of essentially identical players (which have been similarly crippled). I think this is an abuse of copyright which amounts to restraint of trade by an industry-wide cartel.

I'll leave the discussion on fascism to others...

[hayne]

Just to throw another angle into the discussion - how would you feel about DVDs that self-destruct after a certain number of hours? The technology has been developed and may be used in the rental market (you don't have to return the DVD, so there is benefit to both the provider and the consumer).

And, back to region codes, it seems to me that without them, it will be inevitable that the price of DVDs will level out across the world. It's basic economics - without "friction" from such things as region codes and inconvenience of purchasing (the Internet makes this easier), the market forces will push prices towards equality.
So the end result might be that DVDs become more affordable in the richer countries, but less affordable in the poorer countries.

[mnewman]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne And, back to region codes, it seems to me that without them, it will be inevitable that the price of DVDs will level out across the world.

But this hasn't happened with other products. Music CD's (even the legal ones) are still cheaper in the third world than they are in America and Europe. And, I don't recall it happening with VHS tapes either. Why are DVD's (and video games) singled out as the only product(s) to be protected in this way?

Finally, I wonder what will become of "regions" when legally downloadable movies are available on-line?

[hitsuzen]

Original music CD's are only slightly cheaper but one good thing is,
for e.g, the Miles Davis CD I buy here will be the same quality
as the Miles CD I would buy in the U.S.

With Region codes, thats not always the case, because quality
varies between the different regions. This when comparing
DVD's in my collection.

I mean, I dont want to use photoshop that lacks several features and
function because I bought it in a different part of the world!